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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
K2 Thank You!

I have stated many times in this thread that the Jensen Copper Paper Tube is very good! It is what I use as a standard reference. They seem unloved? (old news?) No one seems to care about them? People run out to buy other lesser caps?

I have tested Jensen against the VSF and like the VSF better the difference would depend on the system as to whether it is worth it? The VSF is clearly less muffled with better tonality. An excellent cap and the Jensen Copper Paper tube very good.

Another thing I have mentioned is how one cap in the chain throws things off. The first time I heard an all foil chain (all vintage) I went Holy Smokes! Real sounds! (high noise level but still REAL sounds)

Right now I have a VCap Cuft with two Duelund's in one side in the amp and all Jensen Copper Paper Tube in the other. The all Jensen sounds more dynamic than the VCap followed by two Duelund VSF's

The ENTIRE chain is Duelund except one VCap and it matters natural tones are not as good by changing out just ONE cap.

Where the Duelunds are better is in tonality, clarity then Jensens.

But they sound like the same family of caps.

I can not comment for sure on the VCaps as I am nowhere near the painful long 500 hours! One thing I love about good paper in oil caps is put them in today and things are better right away and then they improve.

That "thin" sound you talk about seems to come from the fast charge and discharge of Teflon. It is a more mechanical sound.

I have mentioned on here before that you can not have ANY poly or other types of caps to get the "full" effect of paper in oil. (some scoff at the idea) I had never heard full signal paper in oil till hearing all vintage. That is what started the thread.

So far my thoughts are Duelund in large value and Jensen in small value just for cost reasons.

I feel (and have said before) Jensen Copper Paper tube is the "lowest" (if one calls that low) I would want to see in the signal path.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
Michael,

" Funny when i asked rabu-acoustics.dk they can not give me an exact price. What is the reason for that ???"

I don't know, they could certainly have got a quote from us?
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Duelund's Do NOT mix well with other caps I have found, Crossover, or electrical. Its better to run them all or nothing.

I found however Clarity MR's do mix well with almost anything accept DUELUNDS following them. The Duelunds Stand alone and are hard to beat, but mixing with other caps they are not worth the price of admission unless you go 100% as another poster FACE has agreed with in the past, as well as now it seems Volleyguy is coming to this conclusion as well finally.
k2_nl
13 posts
 
Hi Michael and Volleyguy,

I know Jimmy's site and I know he loves his Cast Duelunds. Especially the silverfoil ones. Well for the small capital he invested in these caps he really should love them!!
The Duelunds are his number one caps, I believe he then prefers the paper tube Jensens, a bit similar to Volleyguy I guess. In the end Jimmy preferred the paper tube Jensens over the mylar AudioNotes and the copper tube Jensens.

The system in which the Cast Duelunds, tinfoil V-caps, Jensen Alu tube and Jensen paper tube were tested consists of a heavy modified CEC transport coupled to the Audiomagic DAC (same league as the AN 5.1 Signature) and a very fine all tubed preamp and all tubed poweramps, both created by Peter, driving AN speakers (not sure about the model). Though it can't produce very high SPL's, is limitated in the low domain and is way less revealing than my modified Apogee Scintilla's, it is quite a good system (without any plastic cap in the signal path). More important for me was to have the caps tested by a guy I know that is very experienced, has very good ears and puts most interest in tonality (!) in his designs and modifications.

You're so right Volleyguy, about PIO copperfoil caps sounding good right out of the box. Both Jensens and the Cast Duelunds showed this clearly.

I was surprised that the Duelunds didn't show the big difference (even not after hundreds of hours playing) that other people, like you, experienced. But maybe it had something to do with these Cast caps belonging to the very first 630V caps produced by Duelund. I'm interested to hear Frederiks opinion on this. After a very long time the Cast Duelunds outperformed the Jensen in alu cap, but only by a small margin, whereas the paper tube Jensens outperformed the alu tube Jensens right out of the box.

I've not been able yet to listen to Duelunds (VSF nor Cast) in a passive speaker xover. However, the caps in the passive xover of the Scintilla are relatively high values: 240 uF in front of the midribbon and 10 uF in front of the tweeter ribbon. I bought Obbligato caps for my new (nowadays outboard) xover, but I might try out the Duelunds or Jensens in the end for the tweeter ribbon.

I actually would have liked it A LOT when I would have been able to skip the entire passive speaker xover and have it replaced by a linelevel xover. In theory I would be able to do this as I have three stereo poweramps and the Scintilla is a three way all ribbon magnetostatic speaker. There is very good software available that is able to copy the behaviour of the passive speaker xover exactly. The "problem" in my situation that makes me not do this is a small DC voltage on the outputs of the poweramps that is not easily taken away (without affecting the poweramps performance). So I need the caps in front of the delicate foil-only mid- and tweeter ribbons to prevent the DC voltage damages these ribbons.

The two inductors in the original passive speaker xover however are skipped and have been replaced by a linelevel solution. The bass ribbon (kapton backed alufoil) for instance will be connected to the poweramps output directly.

Have you ever thought about going all linelevel xover?

Cheers,

Kees
michaelvv
52 posts
 
Duelund

I was talking to Kasper at rabu-acoustics.dk and asked him , If i wish to buy a pair of CAST-Duelund 1.5 uF would the listed prices be the right ones. And he could not say that for sure before he have checked up with "Duelund".
But this raising prices nightmare was also in place for the inductors 2.5 mH for Jantzen so no panic at all.

Im just accepting and comparing it to the gold prices , but still the gold prices can drop , for sure.

Anyway have you heard the V-Cap CuFT caps ???
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