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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Dgarretson

I was worried you were undecided on the Duelund wire. I do agree with you. I think the flat solid wire covers all freq's MUCH better and stranded as stranded seems to favour the high's giving more air.

I found when rewiring my speaker the drivers work much better in unison. With the stranded there was target freq for each driver.

Is there a price? Maybe. Have you went back and tried your old wire?

I also find the plastic coating causes an echo which I can not see any good from that.

I think it comes back to the Clarity White paper saying 70% favoured low resonant caps in a blind test. The other side was still 30% favoured high resonant caps. I think we like the air? Tony Gee liked the Ampohms and they sound just like vintage to me, quite high resonance. (I can't tell them apart)
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Dgarretson
Which do you think is more correct?

When I heard the CAST vs. VSF I knew the VSF was adding noise but I was Ok with it, or at least some combination of VSF and CAST.

I do want to hear CAST in electronics sometime.

The VCap Cuft is interesting and not thrown in the trash bin so to speak as I have with so many other kinds..... at least not yet. They are at least neutral I can not hear any tilt like Mundorf Silver in Oil, Ampohm or vintage. Only 20-30 hours so far likely. Just not sure if they are natural?
sherod
1,690 posts
 
Volleyguy,
20-30 hours on the Vcaps is nothing. I haven't tried the new copper version, but the teflon Vcap took over 400 hours to open up, and that was in an electronics component( preamp outputs)
dgarretson
2,600 posts
 
Volleyguy, in the key areas of performance the Duelund wire does much better than the old Cardas stranded copper, and maybe will continue to open up through extended break-in. It's interesting that in the course of PMing an audio friend who had also installed the Duelund wire in speakers, we both confessed to thinking of adding a super tweeter. Subliminally we were both looking for more on top. Are you?
dgarretson
2,600 posts
 
Further to the ClarityCap resonance study, I'll add that listening to a low-resonance capacitor-- or a low-resonance wire, assuming that this is the purpose of the oiled silk jackets on the Duelund wire-- can take some getting used to. Once the microphonic "excitement" is gone, one needs to evaluate whether musical information has gone missing as well. IMO excessive soft damping in some types of PIO caps can have both effects, in addition to causing shelving effects throughout FR.

Audio has alternatives to deal with mechanical resonance(e.g. soft vs. hard damping, coupling vs. isolation). Each approach may have its place. Moreover, damping properties of materials vary independent of dielectric properties. Teflon, for example, which has excellent dielectric properties, is relatively soft, which may be a good or bad thing with respect to resonance control? FWIW, I can report that at least several leading OEM designers don't like the "sound" of teflon as compared to polypropylene. But what properties of the construction are they really hearing? There are multiple variables in operation.

It's good that the inclusion of V-Cap in the discussion seems to have moved the thread beyond the paper vs. plastic discussion.

Dave
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