Counterpoint Hybrid Amps: How do they sound?


I've been curious about the Counterpoint SA-100 and NPS amps. They had a tube driver stage and MOSFET outputs. How do they sound compared to other things out there? Are they reliable? Counterpoint was famous for having equipment that was unstable and blew up. I had been told that the designer was not as technically adept an engineer, and that was why the circuit designs were not the most stable, and certain components were stressed in the circuit.

Anyway, the concept of hybrid amps has always been interesting, and very controversial. The different thoughts:

Hybrid amps have the best of tubes and solid state.

Hybrid amps have the worst of tubes and solid state combined.

Hybrid amps should use tube input stages and solid state output stages.

Hybrid amps should use solid state input stages and tube output stages.

YOUR EXPERIENCE & OPINIONS?
kevziek
I used to sell Counterpoint equiptment in the mid 80s. Generally speaking the amps were pretty reliable and the preamps amps were not as reliable. I owned a pre-amp and it blew up. I remember the amps and pre-amps sounding very good at the time; more transparent than CJ and more warmth and dimensionality than Threshold.

I thought that Mr. Elliot was a pioneer in the field and a very competent designer. Also, I think that the reliability issue was more a result of low/cheap quality parts. I think that hybrids in theory have a lot of potential and would favor them in amps that put out over a 100 watts.
Many years ago I heard a Counterpoint hybrid driving B&W 801's with a Wadia as the source. It was in a huge room. I have never heard B&W's sound so good before (or ever again). One of the best reproduced sounds I have ever heard. Huge soundstage, with layers and layers of depth and height. They were reproducing a large choral work, I could hear each individual voice, amazing.
Counterpoint products were excellent.

Can you fault them? Sure, but you can do that with any product. Regardless of cost.

I would say that they kept the tube flame burning during the zenith of the big, bruising solid state muscle amps. The tube input was the thing that distinguished them. While it's true that they played in the high current field, I believe they were required to. The premier speakers of that time required a lot of juice to come alive. Apogee, Carver, Duntech, Hales, Magnepan, Martin Logan, PSB, Thiel.

Let's face it, if you were a high end amp at the time, and you could not feed these speakers what they need, current, you would not be able to sell anything. Your amp, in comparison to Classe, Krell, Mark Levinson, and Rowland would sound limp, strained, harsh, and constricted. Those were the direct competitors of Counterpoint. A step or two above Adcom, AMC, B & K, and NAD. A step above Aragon.

A lower powered amp at the time fell into the classification of lower priced, lower quality(back then quality was quantity), exotic - owned by lunatic fringe, or foreign(European - also considered lunatic fringe at the time).

The amps could basically drive anything you needed to drive. Their products could drive a 2 ohm load, and if my memory serves me correctly, maybe even a 1 ohm load. The sound was rich, due to the 6DJ8 and mosfet outputs. But, I feel that there was definitely some mosfet haze, if not to the degree of Adcom, which I feel is the classic example mosfet haze. I can also say that the sound was a bit etched, electronic, and unnatural. But, so were all of the other competitor's amps. There wasn't a sense of lightness or speed of the products, but again, that was the rule of the day. Even of the time's best amps. I would say it was partly due to the "bigger is better" war that was going on regarding power supplies; transformers and capacitors. Part of it were the parts available. Part of it was that "simpler is better" was not embraced by many then.

Parts quality has come along way in the past decade. And, I am certain that had Counterpoint survived, they would have progressed in a manner similar to Jeff Rowland. A continual upward path, resulting in a refinement and smoothness improvement. None of these big amps needed more power. In fact, over the past 5 or so years, speakers have become much more efficient. Mostly necessitated by the reemergence of tubes.

Would I buy a Counterpoint amp now? Sure. If the sound was what I was looking for. The prices, always reasonable for their quality, are good. As has been mentioned, in the right combination, Counterpoint can offer heaven. As always, an audition is required to see if your tastes merge with the marque. I would also agree with the assessment that the power amps as significantly more reliable than the preamps.
I just heard about Aria(?) amps and was on their website the other day. Thought I read the designer was the original guy from Counterpoint, but I could be wrong. Was Counterpoint bought by Red Rose? Anyway, the website was www.ariaaudio.com(or something close) and I got to it through www.altavista.com(or something close) but you might be able to access it directly. The amps were hybrid types so I'm thinking it might be the same guy. Just thought I'd pass this on as I didn't see it mentioned above.

Tim
Check out this website for all your Counterpoint needs:
www.altavistaaudio.com