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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
I would not call it HiFi ... Natural aggressive and tight. Overpowering the other caps.

My CAST tweeter caps took a couple weeks to break-in the were tight out of the box. VSF sounded good right out of the box and got better.

All that being said the CAST is quieting down and sounding more like it's brother (VSF) all the time.

When you do get your CAST (since end of July?) expect two weeks before you have a full idea of how they sound. The change is very big but at least it is quick!
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Charles1dad

I have not read this very long thread in a long time! (went back to what I said ages ago)

I can say the CAST has not behaved the same for break-in for electronics as crossover. I have no idea why?

Crossover CAST started dark and opened up and in electronics CAST were bright and stiff dynamic and agressive and are rapidly quieting down. I am curious to how things settle?

I did read and had forgot I ordered CAST for my midrange but ended up with VSF and took them. (I was semi Ok but slightly disapointed at the time as the $ on CAST parts was just a little crazy to me) It is interesting (even if sometimes I wish I could delete some posts) to go back and read what one said years later. I had forgot I got rid of a pile of vinyl after the CAST tweeter caps went in. You could hear vinyl wear like child's play.

Anyone who reads this thread please remember even 4 years ago passive parts were not thought to be important by most people. I just ordered a VSF tweeter cap (recomended by someone on this forum) saying what the heck it is only $150 or so.
barrysandy
192 posts
 
Most people, 4 years ago? Maybe. Just a reminder that the first technical "Picking Capacitors" article by Richard Marsh & Walt Jung appeared in Audio magazine in August 1980.

This thread certainly continues to have a high interest level for all of us so keep up the good work!
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
Volleyguy,

Duelund used to describe part of his idea for the CAST to delete out-of-phase resonance anomalies - his take was that these would blur/lower/delete actual information on the record by virtue of being out of phase. This would of course in some way result in perceived less amplitude, as you would need to up the volume to make out small details.

I should stress, this is not something we can measure, but Steen was often very much one to take on a more philosophical approach and do listening tests, when he felt regular measuring available to him, couldn't take him further.

Frederik
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
I have installed a Duelund VSF alongside the CAST removing the vintage cap for better testing. (not a big change less tizzy maybe over the vintage plus more bass)

One channel
CAST and VSF
other channel
Jensen Copper Paper Tube and VSF.

I would like to go two CAST vs. two VSF but that will take some surgery. CAST are huge!

In the posts I had done from a couple of years ago Duelund had warned me difference from going from VSF to CAST would not be like going from vintage to VSF. It seemed logical I was already very high up the scale.

To a big surprise to me it was a bigger difference!

In electronics..... Well exactly the same thing.

CAST is a different animal than any other cap.

Frederik had mentioned Steen's goal of less "out-of-phase resonance anomalies" giving less amplitude. Yes and no. In going from channel to channel at the same volume it is quieter yet more dynamic with the CAST. So you notice the CAST much more. Sounds are sounds not blurr.

I noticed this clearly in the tweeter. Noise was WAY down clarity or volume of high freq. up.

The technical superiority of CAST is beyond a doubt. What does "out of phase resonance do"? Blurrs sound but can smooth or soften.

The difference is shocking. CAST is soooo accurate and literal. If you are looking for tizzy some might call it "air" better look elsewhere. Out of phase resonance in my mind can warm or dull a voice and blurr and greatly reduce all dynamics.

I have for a long time thought CAST would be "THE" cap for the phono stage. I ended up trying VCap Cuft there and cost was the reason. (before these new prices)
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