2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
"That's interesting about the vintage inductor". Salectric

I not so sure the vintage beating the Duelund VSF inductor is so surprising. I have been shocked how many times when you think about how the parts work that results are logical. The vintage is a hard wire wrapped very tightly in wax. The Duelund is a foil. If you ask yourself which will move easier? It is hard not to think the foil. The Duelund likely has 100x as much top to bottom surface area on the foil over I think around 28 guage solid wire.

Since the frequency is high the benifet of 12 gauge is maybe low?

It is just crazy how many times the part sounds like it looks. The North Creek woofer inductor has no resonance control it sounds hard like it looks. It lets through signal but the noise is to high. The vintage 28 gauge iron core wax paper was quiet but did not let through the bass the Duelund VSF had resonance control compared to North Creek was 12 gauge unlike the vintage which was 28. The Duelund made a huge improvement. I bet the CAST even much more so.

Regrets so far.
1 I wish I bought CAST woofer inductor vs. VSF.
2 Duelund VSF for tweeter not good enough. CAST or nothing and I wish smaller gauge and CAST might not be worth it as the vintage is a lot better than VSF.
3 Jensen Electrolytic way to noisy. (too lightweight and no wonder everyone like those big heavy Black Gates)

In hindsight these are all logical to me now....
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Sherwood posted a link to an older review of caps. Again to the what it looks like. The reviewer said the Mundorf was not much better than the Soncicaps and I have to disagree and have heard both of them quite a bit. The Mundorf sounds similiar to Sonicaps as it is being poly but is MUCH more dynamic. Is the Mundorf Supreme not 2 caps in one or something?
salectric
751 posts
 
I don't have any trouble seeing how important the woofer inductor (low-pass) is sonically. What surprised me was that the high-pass inductor is also very important.

I tried a number of different chokes on my woofer before settling on the North Creek 10g, and the type of choke used in the low-pass has a major effect on sound quality, perhaps even more than the cap in the high-pass section. Of course, I didn't try a CAST choke and I don't doubt that it could sound better than the North Creek but it's a question of where to draw the line. My woofer has a 3.0mH and the high-pass has a 2.2. The CAST versions would cost over $1000 each, i.e. $4000 for a stereo pair. The North Creek 10g costs about $200 each or $800 for all of them. This all gets rather expensive pretty quickly!

That said I do think the CAST caps have proven to be good value. In other words, the improvement in sound quality has been worth the cost. So I won't rule out the inductors but I am resisting.
salectric
751 posts
 
I read the 10Audio review of Sonicap Gen 1 vs. Mundorf S/O vs. V-Cap OIMP caps. I certainly agree with his conclusion about the problems with bypass caps. I don't agree about Silver/oil sounding like Sonicap Gen 1, however. I have used Gen 1 caps a number of times and they are a decent sounding cap. The Gen 1 is too lean for my tastes but the main problem is that its resolution doesn't extend deep enough; at first it sounds detailed but you quickly realize the detail is superficial. I suspect at the time the reviewer he did the comparisons (2005 and 2006) he hadn't heard what a truly detailed cap can sound like. By this I mean a V-Cap TFTF or CUTF, Duelund CAST or, at a somewhat lesser level, a large value Sonicap Platinum (such as 1uf). Without a quality reference cap like these, it is hard to judge detail retrieval capability.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Salectric,
I agree with your statement concerning the Duelund CAST capacitor value. They are expensive but have given me very satisfying results and improvevment. Placing them in my DAC and Coincident speakers was money very well spent( a bargain in hindsight).

In High End audio more expensive does`nt always equate to better sound,this is one example where the cost is justified. The highest compliment I can give the CAST is its ability to increase the naturalness of sound presentation, more realism and less Hifi.What`s more desirable than that outcome?
Regards,
More to discover