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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Hi Volleyguy,
Interesting observations concerning you wife and daughter and I can relate to them. My wife isn't a hard core fan of jazz as I am but she does enjoy accompanying me on occasion to the clubs. She really does love the sound of live instruments and has said so ( how could one not enjoy this experience? ). She also notices and enjoys the interactions of the musicians on stage ( the clubs are small and we sit close to the stage). She used to play the piano and has a good ear. When she says the music at home sounds close to "real"(unsolicited) coming from her it's taken as a sincere compliment
Charles.
rodman99999
6,132 posts
 
Anyone looking for an easy way to find the outer foil of a capacitor, without a scope or multimeter: Beg borrow or steal an older receiver or integrated, with a phono input. You'll need one speaker, of any description, hooked up to one output(balance turned all the way to that channel). Strip one end of an old interconnect and attach alligator clips to the hot and ground conductors. Attach a clip to each cap lead, turn the volume all the way down and plug the interconnect into the phono input. Bring the volume up, until you just begin hearing hum. Touch the bady of the cap(one finger). Turn the unit off, reverse the clips/leads, turn back on and touch the cap again. The lead that results in the most hum when connected to the hot lead of the interconnect, is the outer foil. I like to verify my scope findings this way. I was surprised at the increase of noise recently, when testing some Deuland CAST PIO/Cu .22uF/630V caps. I was told, by a couple dealers/techs, that their orientation wouldn't matter. SO glad I didn't believe them!
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Charles
I was just again out listening to what was likely a $100k stereo and it sounded nice but I could not pick out what anything was really. To a women why would one ever spend $100k on a stereo and if it did not even sound anything like live music a women is just saying why???

Can we really argue with that?

VSF to CAST. When the VSF went in the tweeter it was all good from day one and just got better great tone no confusion. When the CAST went in I went over to see if the tweeter was even working, literally. Astounding noise reduction along with more high freq energy. Before I got them people would say are you really even going to hear a difference especially coming from VSF? I was fully with them not expecting a difference or something that was going to take a long time to figure out. (law of diminishing return)

CAST challenge us to think what was really on the recording... (disorientating, VSF are not)(that is why the discussion on CAST goes to are they beyond what we want?)

I am with you I think CAST goes to very real. I am waiting for the day when someone comes on here and says I just could not hear a difference. There is always someone!
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Volleyguy,
I've heard systems where the sound of a drumkit's cymbals have "more" shimmer, sheen and energy than I hear sitting 6 feet from the real thing. So it's possible to voice a system's sound to embellished what is beyond a natural presentation ( unavoidably subjective). This is where I make a distinction between hifi and natural sound and in this realm the CAST errs towards natural. This isn't to dispute what Salectric is hearing at all, just my concept/idea of what sounds right and realistic.

In Sal's system things could certainly be different from mine and his perception of natural/ realism may vary from me. I'd love to hear his system. We're all aware that results can change from one system to another.
Charles,
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
I think the solution to what Salectric is talking about is VSF. Keeps the same super Natural tone but with more what he is talking about.

How many of you guys out there have followed Steen's thinking to as much as possible? Who has gone the farthest?

I have, all coupling caps Duelund (one Jensen Paper in oil just because of room) so all plastic free. (even small value vintage ones)

No electrolytics in the signal path, no electrolytics in the crossover. Output transformers are paper bobbin, autoformer in the crossover is paper bobbin, all crossover caps are Duelund mix of VSF and CAST. Woofer inductor Duelund, tweeter inductor paper bobbin vintage. (I have a Duelund VSF but did not work)

Speaker cable is Duelund Silver 2.0 version II. Speaker internal wire is Duelund Silver 1.0 except woofer is Duelund Copper. (no longer for sale)

I am down to literally inches of plastic covered stranded wire. The only electrolytic is vintage in the power supply. (I would love someone to try a paper in oil power supply)

My comp drivers except woofer are Alnico.

Interconnects are just stock. Oppo is stock so whatever is in there for caps? LP 12 is stock in the sense no changes based on getting rid of plastic.
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