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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
tasouli
39 posts
 
Charles and Bill

Thanks for your replies. Very interesting information Bill, thanks.

Now, regarding the CAST resistors, no, I ordered the standard type, but I have a feeling you're going to tell me there's a difference in placing standard to CAST? Please - I'm all ears? I just asked the Duelund distributor here to supply Duelund resistors not thinking there was a standard and CAST....
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,519 posts
 
Tas, I think the standard Duelund resistors will be perfect for the RC network position they are in. While parts quality make a difference in this position, not as much as the cap in the direct signal path of you tweeter.

The choices you made for resistors and caps in the RC networks are very reasonable with reasonable cost. They are far better than what they replace and that to my thinking is the right decision for this application.

Love to hear others jump in and give opinions.
salectric
755 posts
 
I have tried standard Duelund resistors in my speaker crossovers, but not CAST. I don't believe there was a higher grade of Duelund resistors available when I bought mine but I could be wrong.

In any case, the standard Duelund resistor is a mixed bag. In some ways, it sounds better than a Mills 12w wirewound resistor, but in other ways the Mills sounds better. The Duelund is warmer and more detailed, but the Mills has deeper bass and has more high frequency air and extension. Initially I replaced all 4 Mills resistors in each speaker with Duelunds and was very pleased with the improved detail. But I quickly missed the speed and excitement as well as extended highs of the Mills. That led me to put back first one Mills and then a second, which is what I have used ever since. The combination of 2 Duelunds and 2 Mills seems to give me the best of both worlds. This is something that will probably vary from speaker to speaker. But the moral here is that the standard Duelund may not always be an improvement, at least not compared to a Mills which happens to be a very good sounding resistor and much less expensive. Of course, the CAST resistor may sound much better than the standard version. Eventually I plan to try some and find out.
tasouli
39 posts
 
Salectric

Very interesting information about the Duelund standard resistors. I've just re-spoken with my Duelund rep and he tells me the resistors in my crossovers are shunt and are therefore less critical to the sound. Would your resistors have been in a similar situation or were they in series and, therefore, making more of an impact? The reason I ask is I'm trying to get some gauge as to what impact my choice of resistor in my particular situation will be.

In a normal situation, I really think I'd like to just get the CAST and put my mind at ease but, in my predicament, the money I save on resistors goes on better internal wiring.

I love what a fellow in England has done with an external crossover he built for his Westminster Royal SE's. CAST everything and some silver CAST capacitors just to top it all off. No agonising over cost for him. Apparently, he's very happy with the result! lol ;b

http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=3701
salectric
755 posts
 
My crossover uses 4 resistors, all in the high-pass circuit (tweeter crossover). Two of them are an attenuation network immediately following the actual crossover components (one cap and one choke since it's a 2d order crossover). I use a Mills 12w wirewound for the series resistor in the attenuation network and a standard Duelund for the shunt.

The high-pass also uses a RC network for some equalization of the compression driver. This network is in series with the driver. I use a Mills in this spot. Lastly there is a Zobel network consisting of a small choke and resistor that is in parallel with the driver. I use a Duelund for the Zobel.

I would not conclude from my experience that series resistors are always more critical than shunt resistors. Both resistors in my attenuation network are very critical. The series resistor might be the most critical, I'm not sure, but they are both very important. The other two resistors in my crossover, one series and one shunt, are less critical sonically.
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