2. amps-preamps
  3. 1038620469

Riddle me this...

Why is it that you cannot seem to purchase a lower-powered solid state amp any more? None of the “names” in solid state amps seem to make any reasonably priced or powered products at all, and most haven’t since about the early 90s. (A few come to mind right off, Levinson no. 29, Rowland Model 1, Krell KSA-80, the family of Pass Alephs). These days, the most modest offering from any of these companies (not to mention everyone else) is many times more expensive, in no small part due to the fact that they are all many times more powerful.

Question is, why? Why should I need 250wpc+ to drive any reasonably designed speaker? What is it about the industry that seems to be in a conspiracy (or, at least, conscious parallelism, for you antitrust geeks) to foist more and more power on the consuming public while, at the same time, doubling or tripling prices for their most modest gear? Why is it that, if I want a really nice amp at less than 100wpc, I have to either go with tubes or with gear that was made at least a decade ago? Why is it that most speakers made these days are either “tube friendly” or “require” an amp with enough power to light a small village to actually go?

Now, don’t get me wrong, I’ve got inefficient speakers and a 250wpc amp which I like the sound of just fine. It just strikes me as preposterous that I (and we, if I may speak for the market) seem to have been conditioned to believe that this is necessary. Why on Earth wouldn’t someone get a reasonably designed, efficient pair of speakers and, say, a Pass Aleph amp for a negligible fraction of ANYTHING built by Pass these days and never look back? I understand there are plenty of legit reasons why more power can be desirable (“never can have too much” yea, yea, I know), but am a bit miffed that, legit reasons or no, the market no longer seems to offer choices. We a bunch of suckers, or what? (Yea, a bit of a rant, but this has been bugging me -- am I the only one? Did I miss something? Can I get a witness?)
mezmo
maxgain
526 posts
 
Trelja, I will try to be more "accurate" in my descriptions, but language is a plyable sort of thing sometimes. It looks to me that we agree much more than we disagree. For one thing we are both in the tube camp. I want amps to have the least sound of their own that is possible,I guess that is what I mean when I say "accurate". As an exapmle, I have worked for ARC dealerships and Conrad dealerships and have owned both. Both are wonderful but different. I just seem to lean tword the ARC house sound if you will. For me the sound of the VT series amp that I own is just about ideal. One the other hand one of the best and what I would consider reference quality systems for the era I have had the pleasure of spending alot of time with used a Premier One and a Three. I used a Premier Three and Four in my own system for some time.Funny thing is for me that my system does more of what that Conrad reference system did right than ever before.(I will state a preference for Vandersteens as well over anything else I have heard)
I have been working for the past year to get rid of some of what to me were colorations(for lack of a better or more accurate phrase) in my system that I felt were perhaps "romantic". We may have a different idea of what that sound is? I have gotten closer to "my" ideal sound than ever before by working these out of the sound. It is more realistic to me. which is my only benchmark as to if my system sounds good. If it can fool me for even a bit into thinking I am there with the live event keeps me listening.

I have been a tube guy since my brother came home from UofM with a Dynaco ST70 and an ARC SP3a1, while I was still in High School in about 75,listening to my Marantz 1060. I toyed with the idea of getting an ARC tatoo,just like the sweaty Harley guys, to give you a look into where I am coming from.
trelja
3,223 posts
 
One thing I guess I should say that while I have an appreciation for low power SET amps, and the speakers which are needed to be partnered with them, that is really not my point in this thread.

I think I have gone out of my way to trumpet tubes in general, not specifically 3W amplifiers. The MC240 and MC275 amps which I have asked for are not low powered. The two amps I own, a Jadis and a pair of Atma Sphere monoblocks, are not low powered. My speakers are not very efficient, but are in no means inefficient. The products I own are sort of the "middle way" as a Buddhist would call them. Not SET, but not 200W either. Not 105 db/2.83V, but not 84 db/2.83V either. I see merit in both philosophies, and believe that both add to the harmony which is the high.
My likes and dislikes I make known, and feel strongly about.

What I have been trying to say is that I prefer tubes to solid state, or some newer tube amplifiers which do not sound very tubelike.

The original question of this thread is "where are the lower power" solid state amps. Amps, I point out that I am supportive of, and have heard those which I would not be unhappy to own. I stated earlier, that these seem to be most apparent from the European manufacturers these days.

Somehow, we have digressed into a comparison where Henry Rosenberg is on the one side, and Dan D'Agostino is on the other. I honor the work and contribution of both men. The discussion is fine, and makes for healthy and interesting pro and conversation. Which this thread has served up in spades.
twl
3,251 posts
 
I'm with Harvey(Dr. Gizmo).
trelja
3,223 posts
 
Thanks for the cogent response Maxgain. I think you are right when you say we agree more than we disagree. Even if we did not, this has to be one of the most interesting and thought provoking threads on Audiogon in a long time. I am both priveledged and thankful to be at least a small part of it. Thanks!
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
I will also add myself Trelja, that as someone who has listened through tube power amps exclusively for the last few years, lately I have seriously been considering trying to find a reasonable but nice SS amp to bring in as a comparision piece, simply because it's been so long, and the last one I owned would be fairly out-of-date today. I am willing to temporarily invest around $2K or so, just as a self-check and a system-check, and although I suspect that once I am done, I will be reselling the SS amp (whatever it may be), who knows? - I may get surprised or learn more about some things I thought I already knew. But that's one of the great things about Audiogon, of course - there's no other way I can think of that I would be mulling over rolling this kind of dice just to satisfy my itellectual curiousity. (Though I have to admit that it's true I'll need something to listen to during the interem if and when I decide to get my tube amps modded, so I may as well expand my mind if possible.) Definitely an experience I'll be posting about when it comes to pass.
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