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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Happy New Year to all!

Getting pumped to get the soldering iron going!

This thread was meant to not declare an official cap winner but to give someone an idea of what to expect when installing caps and to know their priorities upfront.

My priorities (with horn speakers) are natural tone, noise reduction, dynamics.

If ultra micro detail was my priority V Cap would be the cap of choice.

I am more in the Jupiter/Duelund camp. I have to be careful not sounding as keen on Jupiter. If space is tight they are my top choice... So I do like them. If money is brought into the equation many will go the Jupiter route.

If money no object? CAST or what value for the $ is RS? I will soon find out...
salectric
755 posts
 
Jet, I believe we are talking about the same thing when you say the CAST caps sound "dark" and I say they are "a bit lacking in air and high-frequency extension." I could hear this when I put the first one in but it became more of a problem when I added a second and then a third CAST cap. Of course, the treble colorations may not be a problem in the context of a particular system.

Since my post a few days ago about V-Caps, I did some reading on the internet about V-Caps and a number of folks described the TFTF caps as clinical, cool or bright, especially when a system has 4 or more. I find this quite odd because it doesn't match my experience at all. Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that I bought all of my TFTF caps during the first 6 months or so of their introduction. Maybe something changed later on in the design or construction. Or maybe other people posted their feelings prior to the caps being fully broken in. The TFTF caps took a long, long time to break in. Somewhere around the 450 hour mark they went from lean, bright and glassy and began a transition over the next few hundred hours to warm and rich in the lower midrange and slightly soft in the treble. The final sound is pretty much the opposite of what I read from a number of internet posters. In contrast, the CuTF V-Caps never sounded bad during the breakin process; they started out sounding good and just got better and better.

I am not trying to start an argument with people who tried V-Caps and didn't like them. I am simply describing my experience.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,518 posts
 
Ok folks before you read what I am about to post and think I have gone absolutely nuts, keep an open mind. Oh, and don't tell my wife as she will think I have lost my mind.

I finally placed my outboard crossover in a nice chassis. I was doing some research on how to best damp the box. We all know that the nicely damped CAST and Jupiter caps sound great and reduce noise greatly! Well I found several threads on folks using Reptisand ( reptile sand make of Quartz). Well, I decided to try it. I filled each crossover box with 30 pounds of Reptisand covering everything bottom to top. Be sure to only use the Reptisand brand made of Quartz as it has the best dialetric properties and the sand is so fine that it will not be abrasive to the components.

I did place the component board on a multilayer cork plateform making sure no park of the plateform touched the chassis on the sides. I did this as over time the board may want to sink down into the sand before hitting the bottom. However my crossover board is slotted and on small cork stilts so there is a 1 inch layer of sand between the most of the cork plateform and the crossover board.

Talk about reducing noise and music emerging from a dead quiet background! Any and all traces of glare, noise you thought you never had, is gone. More natural and organic sound. I am very please and this strange mod is a keeper.

Yes, it can be reversed by simply using a shop vac and removing the sand. But you won't do it. Ha!

Ok, I am a little nuts, but this was fun and I was very curious.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,518 posts
 
After more listening the sound is only better and better with this crossover damping mod. I find I have to turn up to the music a click or two more than usual for the same perceived loudness. I know it is the noise that is now gone and was once adding to the perceived volume. When I say noise I mean whatever ringing, RFI, and other noises once getting into and going through the crossover.

The music has more natural tone, improved body, weight and bass impact. The most impressive change is the greater sense of ease and nuance. As I turn the volume up the music is just so easy to fall into.
junker
6 posts
 
I have Duelund RS 3.9uF coming in tomorrow to replace Mundorf Supremes in the HF position in the crossovers for vintage 16 ohm Altec horns and can provide some input vs. the Mundorfs once they burn-in. Unfortunately I have no experience with Duelund CAST which are outside of my budget, especially with the New Year's sale price on the RS's from PartsConnexion. ;) I would have tried the Jupiter Cu is they were offered in a size capacitance above 1uF.
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