Aesthetix Question

Jfrech: I hope you post your abservations here on the IO Sig vs the P10SE. The strengths of the BAT that you described are exactly those that I seek more than anything else, i.e, the harmonic richness, decay, 3D. Lower noise and thus resolution are also important to me, but secondary to these other issues. Also, did you compare the P10 vs the P10SE? and if so, what were the SE's strengths? I understand there is another tweak to the SE for its power supply. If it is anything like the power supply change from the 30SE to the 31SE, this could be one incredible phono stage.

Louis is a newcomer to my music group. He has been listening with us for about two months and in that time I've visited his home several times to help with improving his system.

His components when we began were the ARC Ref 2 Mk 2 preamp, Manley Steelhead, ARC Ref 600 mono blocks, Walker Proscenium turntable and Koetsu cartridge. His cables were Micro Omega power and interconnect, Silent Source and Shunyata power cables. His speakers are the Dynaudio Evidence Temptation.

The system was very good from first the moment I listened to it. The speakers are EXCELLENT, which were a pleasant surprise for me as I had not experienced these top of the line Dynaudio before.

I felt his system was not doing everything it was capable of so I adjusted and balanced the Steelhead to the Koetsu cartridge, adjusted the Walkers VTA, azimuth and tracking force to perfection, making things much better. I then replaced several isolation devices and damped the preamp with Walker's weights.

After I made the isolation changes and adjusted the table he was so pleased with the direction we were going that he ask what I would change if the system were mine.

I felt the Manley was limiting the system and that the Io would be my first choice. He purchased one that was for sale here at Audiogon (a nice guy many of you know). It had been wired for 220 volt so we had two new 240 volt 30 amp circuits added to the listening room.

When we received the Io it was improperly loaded and had all stock tubes. We replaced 8 tubes with NOS and put the Io into the system. To say the difference was big would be the understatement of the year. This DESTROYED the Steelhead.

I took several pieces of Purist Cable to his home and put them in place of the Silent Source, Shunyata and Omega Micro. Again, the upgrade was instant and undeniable. This guy is EXTREMELY happy.

As for the sound of using an Io by itself or with a preamp. I prefer Io and Callisto. At Louis's home we did a shoot out with Io alone and Io plus the ARC Ref 2 Mk 2. Both of us preferred the ARC added to the system. Greater dynamics with a sense of ease, particularly with complex music. I plan to take my Aesthetix Callisto over for an additional shoot out. Having already owned a Ref 2 Mk 2, I am confident of the outcome in advance.

Jim White who is the designer of the Aesthetix line says that if the speakers are high efficiency (Avantgarde), results favor the Io alone. Medium to low efficiency speakers such as Dynaudio and (my) Soundlab Ultimates, the Io with Callisto (or Ref 2) is better.

I will ask my friend to consider posting to this thread. I think his response to the work I've done on this system would be most favorable.

I would only add, that somehow, someday I would like to listen to his amps in my system.

Physically and cosmetically these ARC Ref 600's in black finish are the most impressive amps I have ever seen. Having owned Tube Research GT 400 that is saying a lot. Unfortunately at $40,000.00 they are presently out of my reach.

The P10SE update is a major revision. I did it about a year ago. Much bigger stage, more depth, more quiet background which brings out the decays and details. The bass and richness of the sound is really a big step forward from the p10. For 2k, it's a great deal. The new depthcharge upgrade for 2k I haven't heard.

The P10SE keeps what you like, but really, significantly, adds what your looking for. In a BAT system, it's hard to beat. I too will be considering the IO ...

Also, make sure to try power cords, dedicated lines, and symposium roller blocks with the bat pre and phono. Helps a bunch for me...

Wow! Smiling here. Thank you so much Albert for sharing your knowledge and experiences. Your thoroughness to describe the details is of great value here. And I did have to smile with "DESTROYED". I have read many great things about the Steelhead so it would be interesting to learn what the Io does so significantly over the Steelhead....at least in the context of your system or your friend's system.

What does concern me here is that there appears to be much maintenance with the Io...all of its tubes, the necessity to change to NOS tubes to really have it play to the level you describe and that it still needs a line stage with most speakers to sound its best. I'm not sure all of these potential reliability/maintainability issues are worth the effort if only subtle improvements exist. But if it truly does "DESTROY" the Steelhead, then it might be worth it. Only one way to know and that is to hear these for myself. Your writings here have given me quite the itch to hear these very much.

Something here keeps telling me NO line stage has got to be "better" than using a line stage. So this too is something I will need to try. If the Io alone is incapable of driving an amp and speakers the same (dynamic) way as the Callisto, this sounds like a change/tweak needed to the Io. It just seems a bit odd to need another active stage to get things "right" if the output level is otherwise capable of taking the amp to full power.

Concerning those big ARC amps, I had to smile of this too. I have gone through many ARC amps over the years, the Classic 60, then the VT130 (oh such magical mids) and then back to the Classic 150s. And then I tried this little lowly Counterpoint NPS400 stereo amp with the basic Michael Elliot mod. This absolutely DESTROYED the huge ARC triode mono amps. Talk about a surprise I was unprepared for. The world of high-end audio always has a new surprise if we keep an open mind.

And thank you Jfrech for your comments on the P10SE. I like the BAT sound very much but somehow I get the feeling there is another level of phono enjoyment to be had with these other phono stages. Now if only I had a way to do a shootout with all of these!

Thank you again very much to all who contributed here.

Audio999- You are right I do not own an analog rig, how ever all of my friends do and I have spent a lot of time listening to them.

Albert- Gosh I do not know where he would have found that 240v Io ;)