2. speakers
  3. 1429587251

High value, high efficiency speakers for SET amps

Hi, Gang,
I know that some of what I want to discuss here has been dealt with in other threads, some of them quite old, but I wanted to see if any of you fine, knowledgable folks are willing to help update and consolidate some of this info in a more current thread.
I am currently running my new Audio Note Kit 1 300B SET amp with a pair of Reference 3A De Capo speakers. I think it's a fine pairing and I am really enjoying what the 300B SET experience brings to the table in terms of musicality and emotional connection.
Still the De Capo, while supposedly an easy load due to its crossover-less design (only 1 cap on the tweeter with the mid-woofer directly coupled to the amp), is "only" rated at 92 db efficient, and based on the most recent Canadian NRC specs, that rating may be optimistic.
So, I am toying with the idea of trying a pair of more efficient, deliberately SET-friendly speakers in my rig, something that might also play lower and with greater dynamic swing than the De Capo's. Note that the De Capo's have served me well and I am very fond of them, but I can't help but wonder if my lovely Kit 1 would shine even better coupled to a VERY easy to drive speaker.
Devore and Audio Note are obvious options - the O/96 looks really tasty. Unfortunately, both of those choices are out of my budget, which I'm thinking maxes out (for real) at around $1500. I am willing to consider used equipment.
Tekton Lore 2.0: This is the speaker that Eric Alexander of Tekton has recommended when we've spoken on the phone, based upon my medium-small listening room and amp. I've read the epic "Lore vs. Zu" thread elsewhere in this forum, and clearly Tekton has its enthusiastic fans here. What I wonder is whether the Lore 2.0 has the refinement of the De Capo in terms of resolution, sweet high end and imaging. Audiogon'er Mikirob has pointed me to the many rave reviews of Tekton's speakers and I'm definitely interested.
I've corresponded with the Sonist folks (who are super nice) but their really high-efficiency, nearly-full-range floor stander is out of my budget.
Then there's the "vintage" route, going after some used JBL's or other high-efficiency "classics" from the 80's (or '70's). I am not inclined to go in this direction, but mention it because it's been suggested to me.
And then there's Omega. I spoke to Louis some time ago and he recommended his 7XRS hemp cone model. But I know all the raps on single driver designs and I'm cautious, although I would like to hear from any of you who own or have owned Omega's.
I'm in no rush to make a switch but I am very interested in your thoughts. Thanks, folks!
rebbi
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,850 posts
 
A few comments.
I also listen at lower than typical volumes. I frequently have to fight with salon proprietors to turn it down when I audition new equipment. In my case, those lower volumes represent realistic volumes. Bach cantatas are seldom performed at 105 dB. So, Ralph, no worries! You did not confuse me by presenting the facts as dictated by physics and math.

My problem is that I played in several orchestras over the years and my wife was a singer. I've seen her singing in a Bach Cantata and FWIW 105 db is **easy** when the full choir is singing at a double forte (ff)! Having such exposure to the real thing (which is on-going; I operate a recording studio and play in a band), playing with peaks at only 75-80 db is good for background music when I am reading or cleaning up the kitchen but not if I am seriously listening. What if you want to play Wagner (Das Reingold, Decca, Sir George Solti conducting, side 6) or Verdi (Verdi Requiem, RCA Soria series, side one cut 2)?? 80 or 85 db peaks ain't gonna cut it- you need the unrestricted ability to play well past 100db without incurring artificial loudness cues (previously mentioned in prior posts) from the system.

With a low powered amp this means high efficiency and make no mistake. If you have 91 db, the is a moderate efficiency and although you may like what you hear, just keep in mind that you are not really hearing what the amp is about and for that matter the speaker as well and it just goes to show. Seems a poor investment to me, unless you are in a fairly small room or office.

But that's me- I figure if you are going through the trouble and the cash, might as well be able to really enjoy the music the way it was recorded. Others might differ on that...
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,330 posts
 
One way to be happy with lower volume levels at home after experiencing what can occur live with an orchestra is to only sit further back in the cheaper seats. or listen to outdoor live concerts only. Not as hard to reproduce those SPL levels experienced at home.

Its all a matter of expectations really.

I went to see John Fogerty live on Monday. It was a fantastic show, great tunes, fantastic musicians, lots of energy, good sound, and loud loud loud. But sound quality was good with distortion well under control. When I go to these things I am always assessing "can I attempt to reproduce this at home" and I leave feeling good about that.

In my case, with only modest efficiency full range speakers, my amps are my power hitters needed to carry the team. In the case of a SET, it would need to be very high efficiency speakers based on what I have heard to date.
brownsfan
1,508 posts
 
Ralph, I guess I will have to take my dB meter next time I take in a St. Matthew Passion. I favor small ensemble, period instrument, even at times, one voice per part, which I doubt would give anything like 105 dB mid hall. My current set up, with the 94 dB monitors driven by the Coincident Franks, is not the set up I would prefer for Das Reingold. Walala, weiala weia! With apologies to Herr Wagner, the ring gets a couple playings a year. Bach plays night and day around here.

The pairing is, in my opinion, absolutely sublime with the material that garners 95% of my listening time. I could get it all, no doubt, but at what cost? I have $7.5 K in my amp speaker pairing, and for what it does, which addresses 95% of my needs, it outperforms everything I've heard even at 5 x the price. As for the room, it is 15 x 20, with a long wall set up.

I hear what you are saying, but I remain happy where I am. It seems a prudent investment to me.
seikosha
218 posts
 
I remember HP from TAS talking about sneaking a DB Meter into Carnegie years (decades) ago. If I remember correctly, he was only getting peaks in the mid 90 decibel range. I've seen others talk about doing it and coming up with similar numbers.

Suprising to me, because when you are in a hall and the Orchestra builds to a crescendo, it always seems pretty intense.

There used to be a woman who could sing that worked in my office. She did opera. Every once in awhile, I'd ask her to do a song if we were working late and our area was empty. My god did it seem loud. This was in an office space with me just 10 feet away. She was always definitely louder than I'd ever want to play my stereo.
mikirob
955 posts
 
Atmastphere,
I respect you greatly, understand what you are saying, yet I fully agree with Brownsfan, my parameters in my home match his. Yes, at times I might go 95db-100db with one of my Various set-ups, but not normally in my home office system in a 14x16x9 room. Hey, I must get some work done on occasion. Plus, I too, prefer/listen to Bach, Beethoven over the Wagner stuff 99% of the time. I'm happy for you that you have found your sweet spot. I'm happy for Charles, Brownsfan, Jet, Granny that they have achieved their sweet spot; now let us help Rebbi get closer to his sweet spot with a smaller budget. Theory is fine, but $$$ speak. The real question is: how far can we push the envelop and get to sound quality of 90-95% of expensive systems for Rebbi and the majority of music lovers who will not or cannot spend $$$$$$$ and upgrade every other month.
More to discover