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Need Help on Tube Rolling for VAC Avatar

Just bought my very first tube amp (integrated), VAC Avatar, a couple months ago and it has been great. Pairing with the Sonus Faber Grand Piano speakers and Rega Planet 2000 CD player, with Nordost Blue Heaven IC and bi-wired speaker cables, I'm quite happy with the current set up.

HOWEVER, like any other self respected 'goner here, I just can't stay status quo and am contemplating of experiment tube rolling, with hopes to explore even better sound (I know it gets very personal here). The problem is...I don't know where and how to start and would like to get some advice from you guys.

First off, here are the 3 sets of stock tubes (Chinese) that I have in the amp:
- 12AX7 x 2 (line stage)
- 12AU7 x 3 (power amp)
- EL34 x 4 (power amp)

Newbie Questions:
- for the most bang for the buck, which set should I try rolling first?
- any suggestions as to what brand gives you what type of sound relative to others? (e.g. Mullard gives you a lush sound and much warmer relative to RCA clear top?!?)
- before I have to spend the money that I don't have, what is considered "entry level" tubes good for experimenting?
- comments on the following brands: Mullard, Telefunken, RCA, Svetlana, Sylvian, Svotek, etc.
- what's a good and reliable place to buy tubes? Used? NOS?
- perspective on Chinese vs. Russian tubes?

As you can tell, I have no clue where and how to start but would love to learn more. That said, the last thing I want to do is to spend hundreds of $ and get nothing accomplished. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, guys.

Steve
stevenkc
elevick
2,636 posts
 
www.tubesandmore.com, www.upscaleaudio.com, www.jeffsoundvalues.com, www.tubeworld.com (pricey), www.tubeman.com, www.thetubestore.com
I personally like Golden Dragon (high end chinese) & svetlana (russian) for new tubes and old stock I like Mullards & telefunken. I stay away from amperex usually because they are too "soft" for me but still great quality, expecially the bugle boy amperex.
My choices for you if on a budget:
EL34 Svetlana, mullard like sound for about $60/quad
12ax7 Golden Dragon, Mullard or Telefunken
12au7 Mullard or Telefunken
Don't change them all at once. It is probably cheapest to get some 12AX7's or 12AU7's to try first. Only buy used if they test almost new. When tubes get used up, they tend to sound too "tubey". If you upgrade to NOS Telefunken or Mullard for the 12's, you should get many years out of them and can concentrate on rolling the EL34's which can be vastly different.
unclejeff
1,313 posts
 
rolling tubes can be as frustrating and fun as changing connectors, cables, power cords, etc. Good luck, hang onto your pocketbook and, most important: Have fun!
lrsky
1,118 posts
 
Stevenkc,
Call Kevin Hayes at VAC. He will be glad to help you. He is one of the really great guys in High End Audio. BTW, the Avatar is a great sounding amp. I think its sound is way, way underrated. I was frankly stunned at the bass output it has, not to mention how liquid it is. Wow what an amp. I loved mine, and wish I still had it.
Anyway, call Kevin for your best advice, nobody would know better than he, which will do the best job.
Larry
doctorb
13 posts
 
Try the JJ EL34. also make all of your pre tubes JJ as well (that's what Kevin Hayes installs for the SE upgrade. That's what I have in my Avatar, and I'm very happy. Remember that all tubes do have specific characteristics, but it's more important how the designer voices the circuit/tube. Have fun with the Avatar, it's one of the best integrated amps available.
stevenkc OP
49 posts
 
Thank you so much for all your input. I've taken all your feedback and did a lot of reading in the past week. Man, you guys are right, some of the suggestions are not cheap, especially with a matched quad. As a newbie, I just ordered a match quad of Electro-Harmonix EL34 and a pair of 12AX7 of the same brand for experimental purpose. Just thought I would give it a college try and see what comes out of it without putting a big hole in my wallet. I'll let you guys know my 2 cents as soon as I plug/break them in, and try the pre-amp/amp both independently and seperately. Funny I've a feeling that I'm going to get hooked. Stay tuned... :-)

P.S. I really appreciate everybody's input. What a helpful group. To answer some of your questions...

Philjolet:
I love the Avatar and very happy with its performance as you can see from this thread that I'm not alone. Never regrad that I spent the extra money. I'm hoping to be able to keep this amp for a while.

Jax2 and Elevick:
Thanks a lot for your insight and tips. I really appreciate your help and I've learned a lot.

Steve
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