Need Help on Tube Rolling for VAC Avatar


Just bought my very first tube amp (integrated), VAC Avatar, a couple months ago and it has been great. Pairing with the Sonus Faber Grand Piano speakers and Rega Planet 2000 CD player, with Nordost Blue Heaven IC and bi-wired speaker cables, I'm quite happy with the current set up.

HOWEVER, like any other self respected 'goner here, I just can't stay status quo and am contemplating of experiment tube rolling, with hopes to explore even better sound (I know it gets very personal here). The problem is...I don't know where and how to start and would like to get some advice from you guys.

First off, here are the 3 sets of stock tubes (Chinese) that I have in the amp:
- 12AX7 x 2 (line stage)
- 12AU7 x 3 (power amp)
- EL34 x 4 (power amp)

Newbie Questions:
- for the most bang for the buck, which set should I try rolling first?
- any suggestions as to what brand gives you what type of sound relative to others? (e.g. Mullard gives you a lush sound and much warmer relative to RCA clear top?!?)
- before I have to spend the money that I don't have, what is considered "entry level" tubes good for experimenting?
- comments on the following brands: Mullard, Telefunken, RCA, Svetlana, Sylvian, Svotek, etc.
- what's a good and reliable place to buy tubes? Used? NOS?
- perspective on Chinese vs. Russian tubes?

As you can tell, I have no clue where and how to start but would love to learn more. That said, the last thing I want to do is to spend hundreds of $ and get nothing accomplished. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, guys.

Steve
stevenkc
I would call Andy at Vintage Tube Services, he is very nice and helpful. Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio is often recommended by others but I had some difficulty talking to him (he kept interrupting me in mid sentence in a very rude manner) and I have not called back since. I am sure either of these guys are at least as helpful as anyone you are bound to talk to.

How are you liking the Avatar? I am considering buying one when money allows but my Plinius integrated is serving me very well now.
Congratulations, and welcome to the world of tubes! I think you'll enjoy it if your only audio experience has been SS gear. I can't answer all your questions since I don't have your specific amp and can only make broad generalizations about tubes. The best thing to do is exactly what you are doing: ask some questions and start rolling as you have the budget. Fortunately the tube compliment you have is not terribly pricey (as some amps can be). In addition to Andy at Vintage, you may also try John up in Canada at The Tube Store, for good and friendly advice and excellent service. Also you can do searches over on AudioAsylum in the "Tubes" section under any of your tube types to get more input than you ever needed. Finally do try to find other Avatar owners because different tubes have a different effect on different gear. OK, so here's some broad and sweeping generalizations for you to take with a bag of salt:

Chinese tubes tend to sound quite bright to my ears, although not nearly as bad as they are often made out to be. They are also very hearty tubes and tend to take more abuse and keep on performing. They are certainly considered entry level, and their sound is not very refined or warm in my experience. They are very cheap and manufacturers tend to include them as stock for that reason. You can do better.

The Russians do make some fine tubes, even today. In my experience they tend to be more prone to failures when new, but a reputible dealer would replace the tube if this happened. I've had at least three different Russian tubes fail in various amps over the past two years. The Sovtek's are probably considered the least desirable in most categories, though they have another higher grade of tube that is manufactured to higher specs under the name Electro-Harmonix which does manufacture some excellent tubes, among them their EL34's are outstanding in the current new offerings. The other EL34 I'd try is JJ Tesla, and if you can find the early 90's version of those in the blue and yellow box it is one of the very best made but they are quite pricey as NOS but not nearly as much as Mullards. Svetlana also make some good tubes. Their EL34's are nice but a bit on the colder side for my taste and in the gear I've used them in. Mullard's EL34's are considered of the best, but you will have to empty your pockets to buy a matched quad. I have no experience with them.

For your 12AX7 I'd go with Ei for current production, but if you really want to try an outstandign 12AX7 try out some NOS Tungsram's (I think The Tube Store has some of these). Pretty pricey at about $35 each but worth it to my ears and in my gear.

12AU7's I have no experience with so cannot tell you what I prefer, but ask around.

Of the brand names you mentioned as a question the NOS tubes by Mullard, Telefunken and Siemens are likely going to be the most expensive tubes available in many types and are all NOS as those companies are no longer manufacturing tubes. For NOS tubes, as a newbee, definitely buy your tubes from a reputible dealer like Andy, John or Kevin as they will stand behind their product. DO NOT try the eBay route as a newbee as you will be rolling the dice with most tube transactions there.

Hope that helps....have fun!

Marco
www.tubesandmore.com, www.upscaleaudio.com, www.jeffsoundvalues.com, www.tubeworld.com (pricey), www.tubeman.com, www.thetubestore.com
I personally like Golden Dragon (high end chinese) & svetlana (russian) for new tubes and old stock I like Mullards & telefunken. I stay away from amperex usually because they are too "soft" for me but still great quality, expecially the bugle boy amperex.
My choices for you if on a budget:
EL34 Svetlana, mullard like sound for about $60/quad
12ax7 Golden Dragon, Mullard or Telefunken
12au7 Mullard or Telefunken
Don't change them all at once. It is probably cheapest to get some 12AX7's or 12AU7's to try first. Only buy used if they test almost new. When tubes get used up, they tend to sound too "tubey". If you upgrade to NOS Telefunken or Mullard for the 12's, you should get many years out of them and can concentrate on rolling the EL34's which can be vastly different.
rolling tubes can be as frustrating and fun as changing connectors, cables, power cords, etc. Good luck, hang onto your pocketbook and, most important: Have fun!
Stevenkc,
Call Kevin Hayes at VAC. He will be glad to help you. He is one of the really great guys in High End Audio. BTW, the Avatar is a great sounding amp. I think its sound is way, way underrated. I was frankly stunned at the bass output it has, not to mention how liquid it is. Wow what an amp. I loved mine, and wish I still had it.
Anyway, call Kevin for your best advice, nobody would know better than he, which will do the best job.
Larry