Reference DACS: An overall perspective

Having referred to this tread over the past several months as I was auditioning top transports and dac combinations I thought that I would add a few of my impressions. I auditioned the dCS stack (without the Verona clock) against the Zanden transport and dac at a dealer who used all Zanden electronics and Peak Consult speakers. dCS had a great soundstage and lots of detail. The Zanden by comparison struck me as having a very distinct, unique coloration to it. Compared to the dCS it was as if the sound waves were rounded off. Setting aside this sense of coloration I found the Zanden to be much more involving and pleasing for a broad range of music (new and old recordings, classical to jazz). At a different dealer I then auditioned the dCS stack (with the clock) against the mbl 1621A transport and 1611E dac with all mbl electronics and Kharma Equisite Reference speakers. The dCS again produced a great soundstage and lots of detail. But the mbl was noticeably better. Instrument detail and separation was better, as if each instrument was illuminated. And the soundstage took on a more 3 dimensional character. After listening to a track on the mbl it was hard to go back to the dCS. I also demoed the Zanden and mbl in my system: Cello Music & Film Strad Grand Masters, Performance II amps, Audio Palette and Encore preamp. The Zanden was like a fine red wine, rich and totally involving. I wanted to listen to the entire disc not just my test tracks. But the mbl won out. It achieved a rich involving sound plus plenty of detail and again a more 3 dimensional soundstage, not just a wall of sound. I also auditioned the mbl 1531 and as a previous poster said for $9K it is a great buy. Lastly my test discs included RBCD’s as well as multichannel SACD’s. Comparing the dCS (which played the SACD layer) to the Zanden and mbl which are RBCD only confirmed that at this level RBCD can sound better than SACD.

Finally, I finished this thread from start to finish, over last few weeks. Lots of good first hand impressions on variety of Transport/DAC combos. Quite a few folks have done a pretty good job of describing the auditions they have had. Using the subjective sound parameters like describing what they heard : detailed, musical, time and space, sound stage, etc and finally 'assigning' the type of flavor the DAC presented. I thank Teejay for starting the thread and being proactive enough to get the thread and inputs going.

Throughout the thread I wondered, what does this all subjective impressions means to ME? What is a reference (close to live, right?) sound? Is it flavour 1 or 2? Surely it can't be both, i thought.

Not untill Ajahu's thread the term live sounding or realistic sounding came up! And only since last few threads classification of live sounding dacs describd as being 'between' flavour 1 and 2!! And I think to me only now it is becoming clear how and what to interprete from what long past posts were trying to describe in their subjetcive impressions. To me live sound IS between flavor 1 and 2, probably more towards number 2 than 1. More like Exlibris rating scale of 7.

Having said that let me post some of auditions that I have had in last few months. Thesa are my impressions. No offense intended.

Jadis JD1/JS2(?) DAC combo: Very detailed, great sound stage, mid range on slightly 'thinner side', very good bottom end, but still slightly digital sounding (sorry)I would give that sound as may be 3 or solid 4. This was auditioned in very well highly acclaimed and regarded (read expensive) amplifications and speakers.

MBL 15xx transport and DAC combo was somewhat similar. I was overwhelmed with lot of details, illuminated instruments less weighty midrange and wanted to stop the music like right now. Scale would be once again 4 or may be 5. This too was auditioned in very good rest of the equipment.

DCS stack (purcell. delius) blew me away at first listen, honestly. The strings were out of the world sounding at first listen. You can almost feel the srings being played in the soundstage rigt infront of your eyes. Well good, lets us proceed with other types pf music, say like guitar, orchestral and vocals and piano. While later CDs sounded good, i found later that the bottom end on mids was actually lacking and soundstage was rather weird I thought ( now it could be the set up, but I have heard very realistic sound in this system with Transrotor/triplanar/sheltor 501 as front end. In fact this was one of my reference sound, with anlogue as front end). Upon much thought the reason for my initial being blown away impressions could be slightly enhanced harmonics. Okay so the DCS set up gets may be solid 4.

Accuphase transport/dac combo: I am afraid the sound was rather similar to MBL combo. Not much to say here. A solid 5.

Audio Note DAC 5.1 Balanced with CEc T0 (?) Transport in all audio note system. WOW! was my instant reaction when started with chamber music and that wow factor continued thru rest of the music types i played. True, natural, dynamic but relaxed presentation. For once no faults to be found. Music sounded so good that you do not end of judging the sound but rather enjoying very realistic sounding music. True to life tonal balance, just the right amount of high freq content. Truely weighty mids. Not once it sounded 'funny or processed'. In other words a perfect 7!! It easily surpassed the Transrotor TT (Transrotor to of the line) sthru an audinote phono. (although i cound be wrong here since i auditioned only one record) The audio note sound reminded me of my own Classe CDT-1/DAC-1 combo, which I would rate as solid 6. I know it can use a just a tad little more upper high. But i will leave good enogh alone. High freq is kind of tricky. slightly more and scale tips to lower pretty quikly. Of course it is an 'ancient' design as compared to current mega bucks 'reference' dacs, but it still stunns me every time I sit down to listem to music.

Trust me I don't WANT my old Classe DAC to sound this good so that may be I have excuse to get one of these high $$$ proud of ownership dacs that makes a statement and I can brag about. May be Audio note would give me bragging rights (since it is rather expensive);-) Although this Altman Attraction Dac intrigues me.

I read somewhere (here or AA) that one person liked the Attraction better than his Audio Note 4.1. I still find it hard to believe that the Attraction could best the AN 5.1 or the Zanden 5000 but who knows? I own the Attraction and I've never heard either of the other two in my system. In terms of price we're comparing apples and oranges. In terms of performance, I don't think it gets much better than this trio.

Exlibris, you have made some major changes in your system in a relatively short period of time! It seems that you are extremely pleased with how your total system sounds to you. Well, congratulations, your thoughtful effort and time put in has gotten you what you wanted, so enjoy the music.

Now, some questions for you, I'll look forward to your responses, thanks in advance.

1) Please share in more detail what the Attraction DAC offers you, that other upsampling SS DACS did not in your listening experiences. Remember I only care about redbook not SACD.

2) I had a ML-31.5 transport and thought with my gear that the reference Ensemble sounded better. If I got it correct you just replaced your Accustic Arts Drive 1 with the ML-31.5. What differences between the two transport did you hear that lead to your decision.

3) I will be receiving in the next day or two the new version of the Accustic Arts transport that is a major upgrade parts wise compared to the first generation and was developed by Accustic Arts to bring out the best possible performance from the their new MK4 DAC. I will be writing a review of my audition experience in the next couple of weeks. Did you consider this new version of the Accustic Arts Drive 1 or were you so enamored with what the ML-31.5 offered that would be no reason to audition it?

Thanks Teajay.

1) Please share in more detail what the Attraction DAC offers you, that other upsampling SS DACS did not in your listening experiences. Remember I only care about redbook not SACD.
Speaking very generally, I find oversampling DACs to either sound somewhat 'processed' or somewhat 'confused.'
I'll be the first to admit that some of the 'processed' sound can sound enjoyable. In my system, for instance, the AA DAC showed warmth and nice dense images. It just didn't ring true to me: the immediacy and excitement of live music was missing; the musical inter-play between the performers was missing. This is a great DAC but I just wasn't excited about coming home and listening to music when I had it in my system.
It was definitely not 'confused.' Confused oversampling DACs show images with shadows and fuzzy outlines. They barage the listener with information but very little music.
In addition to 'processed' and 'confused'; every oversampling DAC that I've had in my system had problems in the time domain. It is as if the images had difficulty breathing their energy forward toward the listener. As a listener I am left to watch the music on the stage. I have to 'go to' the images. In real life, music comes to you.

2) I had a ML-31.5 transport and thought with my gear that the reference Ensemble sounded better. If I got it correct you just replaced your Accustic Arts Drive 1 with the ML-31.5. What differences between the two transport did you hear that lead to your decision.
3) I will be receiving in the next day or two the new version of the Accustic Arts transport that is a major upgrade parts wise compared to the first generation and was developed by Accustic Arts to bring out the best possible performance from the their new MK4 DAC. I will be writing a review of my audition experience in the next couple of weeks. Did you consider this new version of the Accustic Arts Drive 1 or were you so enamored with what the ML-31.5 offered that would be no reason to audition it?

I had every intention of using the new Drive 1 with my Attraction DAC (though I have never heard this transport).
I was then offered a good price on a 31.5 from a friend and I took him up on it. The Drive 1 may be better for all I know. There is a very good chance that I will be able to do a comparison of the new Drive 1 and the 31.5. I will post my findings when I do. The other transport that has me excited is a battery-powered CEC TL-1x from Reference Audio Modifications.

I should note that I took the plunge and picked up a used Zanden 5000 mkIV solely to compare it with my Attraction DAC! (They don't sell Zanden around me and I couldn't get a demo). Here is my expectation: the Zanden will be better on vocals; the Attraction will be more fun to listen to in every other respect.
We'll see!