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Reference DACS: An overall perspective

There has been many threads the last few months regarding the sonic signature of some of the highest regarded reference DACS (Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) here on the GON. I have been very fortunate to audtion many of these wonderful pieces in my home or friend's systems. I wanted to share, in a systematic way, my impressions/opinions with you GON members for a two reasons: 1)That my experiences might be helpful to fellow members interested in audtioning these DACS. 2)Starting an interesting discussion regarding the different "sonic flavors" of these reference digital front ends. I totally agree with the statement, "if you have not heard it you don't have an opinion". Therefore, I have no comments regarding DACS from Weiss,Goldmund,Audio Aero and Burmester because I have never had the pleasure of audtioning them. I would love to hear from members who have and share their experiences with us. My overall impression is that these DACS(Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) can be grouped into two molar categories regarding their overall sonic signature. By the way, all of them can throw a large/deep soundstage with excellent layering in the acoustic space with "air" around individual players on that stage. However, than they start to part company into two major categories. Category #1) These DACS "flavors" revolve around pristine clarity, fine sharp details,speed,very extended top/bottom frequencies,and great PRAT. These DACS never sound "etched" or "in your face" but are more "upfront" then "layed back" in their presentation. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Dcs,Ensemble,Meitner. My personnal favorite in this group is the Ensemble, which I owned for two years. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Wilson,Thiel,Dynaudio, Focal/JM Labs. Category #2) These DACS "flavors" revolve around a "musical/organic" sense, natural timbres,and an easy flowing liquidity. Their "less forward" presentation my give the impression of less detail, but I think in this case its an illusion fostered by their more relaxed/organic manner. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts. I did find that the tube DACS did not have the top/bottom frequency extenstion and PRAT of the SS DACS in this bracket. For me, the Accustic Arts DAC1-MK3 gave me the best of both categories, therefore it is now the resident DAC in my system. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Magnepan,Von Schweikert,Sonus Faber. Well, it's all just my opinion regarding these digital pieces, but I hope this post was at least informative/somewhat interesting and would lend itself to other GON members sharing their impressions, not about what DAC is the "BEST" in the world, but your personnal taste and synergy with your system.
teajay
branimir
236 posts
 
Ben,
First about violin, Itzhak Perlman Stradivari sounded much more clear and alive via Esoteri D-03/P-03U/G-0Rb combo then via AA combo. There were also more details apparent like Mr.Perlman hand moves and his breathing while performing. Since I heard Stefan Milenkovic live playing one of the Stradivari's I know what I am talking about. Wood, body but, also nice string clearance is IMHO key to good violin perfomance-Esoteric combo is hear closer to real music then AA combo.
Human voices:Male-Andrea Bocelli for example sounded less chesty with more articulation and power on Esoteric then on AA, Female-Sarah Brightman sounded also way more powerfull and real on Esoteric with NO "Whiskey" like signature in her voice(that signature is apparent on AA but, I know her voice very well-it is a fake signature made by AA).
Cello is fuller but, way more clear on Esoteric then on AA.

All in all Esoteric produce classical music and voices closer to real music then AA. Live performace of classical music is(when really good) in my personal experience never syrupy or slow, in fact it is always very dramatic and entertaining!
ben
66 posts
 
Branimir,
Thanks a lot for your test report,though I have AA dac mk4 not tube dac and
only listen Esoteric combo in my friend s system (not in my setup doing A/B tests) I have similar observations mostly with yours
Esoteric is more powerful (more upfront)clearer (not having tube noises vs tube dac and better signal to noise ratio vs dac mk4) a bit better bass definition but dac mk4 is not syrupy or slow and I think it is a little more musical for long term listening,and as all we know digital interconnects and powercords make dramatic effects on transport and dacs
I again thank you for your detailed comparison
psacanli
535 posts
 
I think the overall perspective today was given to me by the Stereophile show report that indicated "master quality"
computer discs from Reference Recordings are here-now!!. Wow!! Things are quickly getting even greater for those of us loving the sounds only the high end can provide. No wonder Sony & the others are now allowing free MP3 or whatever downloads. Word will spread about the utterly fabulous sound available by "upgrading" to a "pay for" product-this will be great for the music industry and all us audiophiles. Quality we've never heard before(and I keenly remember the let down I experienced listening to a record on my Goldmund Studio and 'spensive cartridge-versus- the same piece on the old pre-recorded tapes on my rather only slghtly above average reel to reel! We may finally be getting somewhere it seems-after all these years of "faulty, noise producing" CD players with their pathetically "s----y" power supplies & lack of isolation. We've all been had by Sony & Phillips and I hope it's comming to an end. And this business of "reviewers" wasting time trying to describe one extra "mousepower" in the "greatly improved" ' DAC or better yet transport under review'. It will be wonderful to move forward. I am really hoping the new formats "players" with be immensely better than the average available now- and we all don't have to go thru the same 'newly improved' nonsense for the next 20 years. If my toes aren't tapping and i don't get the sensation of melding with my lazy boy with the assistance
of a little Sherry or Port then I for one may throw in the towel on the new and spend a lot more time with my
Goldmund enjoying the "classics of yore-- let's be honest( and I am a big collector)-there's just not that much "new" being released. Seems the 3 B's, 2 H's, 2 M's,eastern Europeans and joyous, dynamic Italians are still our bread & butter, steak & eggs, caviar & champagne, and the wine & cheese on a sunny day.
dev's avatar
dev
832 posts
 
Branimir,

Good to see that you got the new AA Tube Dac and are enjoying it.

You really are missing out not changing the tubes, there are only two 12ax7's. I'm not really into tube rolling either but this is so easy and I look at it like changing out cables and getting a different flavour it most defiantly is worth it.

When I hear people refer to the manufacturer voicing there gear and by changing this or that then you are changing what the manufacturer created I have to add to this as I'm not fully in agreement. There are other factors that come into play here so if you were wanting to get exactly what the manufacturer hearing while voicing then you would need everything they were using while in the process, same IC's, identical components like amps, pre-amp, speaker cables, speakers etc. which I'm sure no one is using. When I personally am putting a set-up together I look at all of these pieces as ingredients just like a baker or cook would.

Teajay you really did a good review of the Dac and I will say that your out come of the sonic flavours when evaluating the different tubes is pretty well identical to my own findings, great job.

I have to say that I previously heard the Esoteric D-03/P-03U/G-0Rb combo in a system and I was not impressed with the system as a whole, I have not heard the Esoteric pieces in my own system but I intend on doing so in the near future.

Now back to the Tub Dac, I use to own the AA Drive also and I had a chance to try a couple of different transports and ended up with a Oracle 2000 but this is their latest design and hooked-up via Stealth Sextet digital AES connection. I preferred the 2000 over the AA Drive, if you happen to get one to demo make sure it is their latest design and do not use the 2500 as your outcome will be different. I just received my new CAT JL3 Sig. MK2 mono blocks to pair up with my MBL 101E's, I also just got Stealth Dream speaker cables two sets which are replacing my VD cables so I'm true bi-wired. I also received their Dream power cables so my system will be connected with all their power cords and lastly I got their latest Sextet BNC to BNC digital cable reason being to compare to the AES Sextet digital as Oracle says their BNC connection is better so I guess I'll find out.

Once I have had all of these new toys in my system for a while I'm going to get the Esoteric D-03/P-03U/G-0Rb combo and try it in my system. How much do these three pieces list for? When I heard that system with these in it I noticed that the transport was noisy is yours? The high cost of these pieces my expectations would be much higher and I would not be able to live with this if every transport does this.

Branimir when do you expect to get your new speakers? and just curious while doing you evaluation what was the rest of your set-up, speakers, IC's, components etc.
kops's avatar
kops
478 posts
 
Branimir what digital cable did you used in those comparisons?
I guess Stealth Sextet?

And please tell us which is superior the X01D2 or the combo P05+D05?
In this thread
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1168773916&read&3&4&

the X01D2 is favored over the combo and especially from "Esoteric's people" but I guess -as Ben already said- that the digital cable and/or power cables has significant part to the final outcome.

What do you think?

cheers!
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