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Trelja's new tube amplifiers - Granite 860.1

In the past month, I have purchased a pair of Granite 860.1 tube monoblock amplifiers for my main system, and could not be happier.

The first thing I would like to say is that I have absolutely no relationship to Granite whatsoever. Although, since buying these amplifiers, I have been in contact with Don Hoglund, and have developed an incredible amount of respect for the man. Don has built an American (VERY important to me) high end audio, which produces incredibly great sounding gear at prices I find extremely attractive. In the short time that I have gotten to know Don, I see that customer support, and service after the sale are two things that Granite goes out of its way on. These traits are actually followed through on, not just lip service.

I had purchased a Granite 657 tube CD player in the winter, as some will recall the CD players that have really impressed me most in my audio journey were the Audio Aero Capitole, Electrocompaniet, Granite 650, and YBA. Based on my pleasure with the 657, I decided to take the next step and try a pair of the 860.1 tube amplifiers.

One small anecdote I would like to share with everyone here before I get too deep into this is that while playing these amplifiers the morning after getting them, my wife asked if she could have them in her system! She was simply enchanted by the sonics. On top of that, the very manageable size and attractive cosmetics had turned her into an instant Granite fanatic. Within one song, she enthusiastically commented to me that she has never heard anything as special as what she was currently hearing. No matter what, when your wife gets bowled over by a purchase, you know something VERY different is going on.

Allow me to give a general introduction of the Granite 860.1 monoblock tube amplifiers. These amps are about half the width of a typical component, and their weight is also manageable. Side by side, a pair should fit nicely into a rack, presuming said rack is tall enough to accommodate their 9" height. Despite this, I can assure you that no corners have been cut whatsoever. The amplifiers look very attractive to me with their exposed tubes, covered transformers, polished stainless steel bodies, and acrylic matrix faceplates with the luxuriously relaxing cool blue Granite logo glowing soothingly bright.

These amplifiers are sure to please a very wide variety of individuals due to their myriad settings. They can operate in triode or pentode, and with varying amounts of feedback, from none at all to a moderate amount. Each setting is different enough that one will get the impression they just bought a stable of amplifiers, and can choose the one they feel suits them best. And, while the included tubes are the fantastic JJ KT88, tube rollers are sure to be in heaven. The amps can run 6L6, EL34, 6550, and KT90 as well. Don has definitely built the amps for the ultimate in ease as each tube is independently biased, mitigating the need for matched pairs.

Although I was told the amps were optimally set up to sound best, triode with no feedback, the curiousity in me drove me to try all of the possible combinations. In the end, it served nothing more than proving what I had been told. Operating the amps in triode with zero feedback produced the best sonics - alive, beatiful, sweet, incredible!

I had been warned that the Granite monos were not warm amps, but they were sweet. Interesting, I thought, but totally accurate. Theirs is not the lush, warm euphony a lot of tube amplifiers exhibit, masking over detail and excitement for ease of listening. No, these amps had as much detail as anyone would ever ask for, but there was something quite magical about the sound. I keep going back to the words sweet and beautiful when describing the Granites.

Anyone who has known me here for the past five years knows that, as opposed to the tubes themselves, I always harp on a tube amplifier's transformers. Let's face facts, the heart, soul, guts, and expense of a tube amplifier are its transfomers. What separates the good or not so good tube amplifiers from the great ones, the Air Tights, Audio Notes, BATs, Jadis, Lamms, and Thors of the world, are the transfomers. Add Granite to this very esteemed list.

Although Granite doesn't hype them much, my own opinion is that the secret weapon of these ampifiers are the transformers. First off, they are huge. Overspeced to be sure. These massive trannies are the reason I simply laugh when I read the amplifiers are rated at a mere 30 watts per channel in triode. The Granites are without a doubt the most powerful two EL34/KT88/6550/KT90 tube a side amplifiers I have ever encountered. Suffice it to say that they absolutely drive the pants off of my Coincident loudspeakers, sending their 10" woofers flapping around with authority - my own personal judge of an amplifier's bass response. A lot of amps require the owner to make the switch to pentode when the situation becomes demanding, not the Granites. You can run them in the pure, sweet, dimensional triode mode all the live long day.

A very interesting feature of these amplifiers are the integral Alps volume controls. This lends the capability of being able to run a line level source, such as a CD player, directly into the amps. The immediacy, clarity, refinement, dynamics, and slam I observe in this configuration flat out make me believe I may never use a preamp ever again in my life if I can help it.

I do not hesitate to say this is the best sound I have ever gotten from my system. Late night listening marathons are now once again a regular occurrence for me. They are simply a joy. While the sound includes everything I have outlined above, there is no listening fatigue whatsoever. I can listen all night, pulling out CD after CD after CD. Discs I have written off long ago not only become listenable but downright enjoyable for me.

From a service perspective, one major concern I had voiced to Don was that some in this field will not make the circuit diagram available to the consumer. While it would surely be nice if products didn't break or companies did not go out of business, but the reality is that both of these happen. As such, if the company dies, then the component dies, you may be stranded up the creek with no paddle. Don assured me this was no problem, and at that moment I knew I had found the company I would throw my full faith, allegiance, and support behind.

In short, I honestly believe I probably have just come into a lifetime purchase. The combination of wonderful sonics, outstanding value, American craftsmanship, a great company which stands behind them, and Don himself make me wonder why I have taken so long to find this path. I encourage anyone who is able, to give the Granite tube ampifiers an audition. I think you may just come away thinking they are one of the absurdly best buys in high end audio today, definitely reference level components for a quite modest pricetag. Granite is the type of company that leaves me confident that an American company can compete with the best from the rest of the world. The requirement being a young, agile, clear thinking, creative, passionate, smart company such as Granite. I recommend the Granite 860.1 monoblocks, and the Granite nameplate unconditionally at this point.

Enjoy,
Joe
trelja
trelja OP
3,223 posts
 
Swampwalker, most seem to share your view on the JAN Philips 6922.

Well, on Saturday, a bunch of us got together and had a great time. With the Merlins, we compared the Granites sans preamp, and the Berning with and without a Joule LA150 preamp.

First thing's first - the sound without the preamp is just SOOO much better. Much more slam and immediacy. I also think it is immediately apparent level of detail and refinement are quite a bit better.

The Merlins are a much more relaxed speaker than my Coincidents. In fact, they are quite different altogether. It goes beyond the Dynaudio Esotar versus ScanSpeak Revelator, all the way to the bass being handled by a 6.5" driver versus a 10" driver. In my opinion, the Berning is a better match for the Merlins, as it brings out the best in what these speakers do. If I was going to live with the Merlins, I think I would go with either a Berning or a pair of AtmaSpheres(or Joules?). Overall, things are close, but I think the Granites are probably a better overall fit with my Coincidents.

Both speakers are final purchase loudspeakers, but I think the Coincidents can probably please a broader section of audiophiles. But, what the Merlins do well, they do more than well.

I could tell Mark was torn, just as I am with my Coincidents. It is the classic OTL versus transformer coupled tube amp challenge. Both of these amps are at the pinnacle of their respective technologies.

I heard the same things with the Merlins that I do with my speakers in terms of differences. The OTL amps are more lively, with superior resolution across the spectrum. There is also a lot of similarity in the bass region to a solid state amp, albeit without the impact. By that, I mean there is an extension, snap, and tightness, combined with a definite leaness in the midbass that may make some feel the amps are cold. The transformer coupled tube amps are not as deep or tight, but have an enticing fullness and warmth that will appeal to some. The Berning is sinewy, the Granites voluptuous.

I preferred the Berning on rock and music that was more intricate and complex. But, if you are a fan of vocals, particularly female vocals, I would have a hard time believing things could get much better than the Granites.

Which is better? I don't mean to sound like a Stereophile writer, but heck if I know. I feel like I am at the ice cream counter, wondering if it will be Death By Chocolate or pistachio. While I love both, it's hard to make a choice. Normally, I have quite visceral reactions to gear and can easily make a decision as to which is better to me. In this case, I am totally at a loss. Perhaps it speaks to the level both amps are playing on - they ARE that good.

I would say that in the end, if you are looking for a transformer coupled tube amp, the Granite has definitely attained "destination status" in my mind. It features everything that a tube lover loves a tube amp for, it's sweet, romantic, dimensional, and surprisingly detailed, refined, punchy, and powerful. As I said, add it to the list of best tube amps made. If you want a more incisive sound, combining a lot of what solid state and tubes do well, you are probably an OTL fan - but you knew that already. So for me, when it comes to my Atmas and my Granites, do I keep both???
sbank's avatar
sbank
3,379 posts
 
Swampwalker, One follow-up comment to Trelja's last post...We know for sure that Joe prefer's the Berning sans Joule preamp. However, when some of our group next compare the Bernings(stock & modded) with/without preamp using another contender, the CAT SL-1 III, we might find a different conclusion. More to follow...

Joe, one thing I realized we forgot to try was experiment with the higher feedback settings on the Berning. Perhaps, they would have moved down the continuum more towards the Granites if we went with the normal or higher feedback settings? I think you need to hang on to both for a while and keep playing them without active evaluation. Let the other side of the brain "feel it" for a while, and see which amp keeps you up late listening to tunes. Cheers, Spencer
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Trelja....Two points...

You are very right about the transformer being the heart of a tube power amp. Dyna Kit, later called Dynaco, was originally a transformer manufacturer. They came to realize that between the power and audio output transformers, they were making most of an audio amp, so they packaged up a kit of parts, and introduced audiophiles to the benefit of 60 watts, when most people thought 25 was overkill.

Your observation about variation of sonics when the amount of feedback is varied does acknowledge that the amp is not truly "high fidelity" ...accurately reproducing the input signal. I think you have a musical instrument, which you have tuned to your own particular preference.
trelja OP
3,223 posts
 
Spencer, good points! We need to hear that CAT you are playing with next time. Also, Joe G.(Slipknot1) may have his Supratek at that time, so we can also try it.

You may remember that two weeks previous, I felt the same way at Jim's, all the way up to the Lamm preamp. I would absolutely LOVE to hear a preamp that betters the sound that I am hearing with CD direct, but as of yet...

I would be curious to hear how the Berning's sound changes with varying amounts of feedback. I know that with the Granites, adding feedback doesn't improve the sound, and I am left wondering as to why anyone would want to do it, or why the switch to change it is included in the first place.

Which brings us to Eldartford - the aim of this thread is not to discuss the point of the "absolute sound" versus a component being a "musical instrument". Witness the recent discourse between J. Gordon Holt and Arty Dudley, the point has been belabored to death since the dawn of audio. I would submit that in my experience, amplifiers react in this same way to varying amounts of feedback, be they OTL, transformer coupled tube, or solid state. Is there an amp that anyone can think of that does not behave in this manner? I have read articles from that time I was a child regarding feedback. In the days where measurements were king, amplifiers with feedback measured better, so the engineers of the day, went with it. Trusting my and my compadres own ears much more than ANY manmade device, no feedback sounds definitely more true to your definition of a high fidelity component.
nickatkins
82 posts
 
Hi guys. I've been with my Granites for almost a week now and am very pleased so far even though the tubes are not yet burned in. Immediately I noticed everything I expected moving from a 200 wpc solid-state to 30 wpc SET: less slam, more sweetness; less bass, more bloom; less detail, more air; bigger soundstage with the Granite, increased sense of nuance, like I can hear more *into* the music or something. It's just more natural in every respect. The Granite bass is something to get used to - I wouldn't say it's woolly and it's not even less extended just different. Maybe the notes are less well defined or something but it doesn't bother me. I leave the Merlin BAM off now (it's in my tape loop).

Admittedly this is my first experience with tube amps and I am happy I made the move. I expect things to get more satisfying as the tubes break in. Btw, how many hours do you think that takes? I'll probably get a quad of Svetlana KT88 or Electro-Harmonix KT88 - any thoughts on what works best?

On Trelja's suggestion I also tried for a day without a preamp and have some comments on that. I have to say - I don't prefer this configuration. I know it sounds more "immediate" and there definitely is more "slam" but I don't find that makes things more "musical", to my ears. I like the finesse and sense of balance that a preamp gives you even if it's just more colouration and probably distortion than without one. My preamp is a Marsh p2000t ("t" for "tube") and it's pretty good for the money. But I'm really looking forward to how the Supratek will sound (and *look* - I have so much glass in my room now it's not funny - my friends and family think I'm insane!). I also can't live with CD direct to amp as I have other sources to consider - it's possible a passive preamp like a Placette will be rotated into my system in the nearish future, just to see. The guy I bought my Cary 306/200 CD player off swears by the Placette.

Obviously the Berning or Joule amps are better with the Merlin VSMs but I can't afford either for now so the Granites will have to do. They are seriously classy sounding amps, well made and look fabulous. When my Dad saw them he was shocked at how retro they looked - he said he was taken back to his youth when he built SETs from a kit! Btw, how do you like the Pentode sound? I can't say I've given it more than 1/2 an hour. The feedback knob doesn't do anything for me so I leave it on zero.

More later, take care,

Nick.
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