2. amps-preamps
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Can tube amps play loudly?

Hello Gentlemen,

I'm in process of upgrading my current system. It's all junk...Onkyo receiver, Wharfedale speakers, etc. I've finally finished grad school and have decided it's high-time to upgrade to a quality two-channel system.

I've heard tube amps in various settings and love the way they sound. I'm strongly considering starting with one of the modified Cayins on the market (Bizzy Bee or PrimaLuna versions).

I’ll preface my question by noting that I am a total tube “newbie,” and I’m sure my question will speak volumes about my relative youthfulness. Here goes: Can tube amplifiers in this modest price range play loudly?

I realize this is dependent on the speakers and their sensitivities. What I'm looking for here is a relative ballpark estimate. There are so many good speakers on the market that I don't even know what to start looking at seriously. If I could weed some out based on their sensitivities, that would help me out a lot.

So, does anyone have any rough decibel ratings for tube amps similar to the Cayin? If so, what sensitivity are your speakers? I do realize that decibel ratings vary widely depending on amp power, speaker type, distance, etc. All I want is a rough estimate.

Any thoughts from anyone would be appreciated. I’d like to be able to narrow down my speaker choices before I start shopping seriously, because I don’t want to waste my time or a dealer’s. Plus, I’d like to know whether I can even achieve respectable volumes with tube amps on my modest budget.

Thanks!
-Chris
cds9000
tomryan
796 posts
 
Audio Research makes (made) a good integrated with remote control which you should be able to find used for your price without a problem. It's a damn good match with ProAc Response series speakers which, if you're real lucky, you might find a pair of 2.5s for $2,000.00. I once heard a Manley Stingray integrated sound nice with Coincident floor standing speakers.

But to answer your question (even though most everyone else already did), yes - you can find a tube integrated which will play your speakers as loud as you want. I've been doing same for 20 years. Actually had a Mesa Baron which in pentode (although a bit sterile sounding) will blast music and can "rock a party". However, with the right speakers they can do this in triode for a much smoother, more natural sound. The Baron can be listened to in full pentode, 2/3pent-1/3tri, 1/3pent-2/3tri or full triode. They are actually two mono amps on one chassis but you'll need a pre-amp (or even a used Creek remote volume control for $150.00 if damn nice).
raytheprinter's avatar
raytheprinter
1,234 posts
 
if you match a SS poweramp to a Tube preamp,make sure the preamp is capable of delivering the low end you want to the poweramp or youll be amplifieng soft bass,
maxxc
177 posts
 
Hi Rockvirgo. No thats not exactly what I meant.

Yes a speaker that plays at 86bd with 1 watt will require 2 watts to play at 89db and 4 watts to play at 92db. This of course does not take impedance and other factors into consideration and is a genaral rule.

No the 96db speaker is not playing twice as loud as the 86db speaker. 89db is actually twice as loud as 86db. But the human ear does not generally perceive a doubling in volume until around 10db although it is actually playing much louder then the doubling in volume we perceive.

I don't really understand your reference to the differences in volume control

Best Wishes MaxxC
rockvirgo
587 posts
 
MaxxC, lots of volume controls are designed to increase loudness level in discrete steps, typically 3dB at a time. In this way it takes three plus clicks to make your sound twice as loud. That is, until the volume control nears the center of its range when the steps often become smaller, typically 1.5 dB apart. The ritziest preamps offer even finer 0.5dB steps.

The dB scale is all about perception. The threshold of human hearing is 0dB. If a 3dB increase were twice as loud, but not perceived by a human as twice as loud until +10dB, to whom or what would a 3dB bump be "actually twice as loud" as you state?
maxxc
177 posts
 
I guess you are refering to step attenuators. My amp adjusts from 0-99. One click at a time.

The db is a scale of scientific measurements just like the weather or how we are able to determine what Hz a instrument is capable of playing.

Simple as I can say it. A increase of 3db on actual measurements is twice as loud. Although the sound pressure MEASURES twice as loud we don't perceive it as being twice as loud. In actuality it is twice as loud.

In otherwords going from 86db to 89db will MEASURE twice as loud. But the normal listener does not perceive it as being twice as loud untill it nears the 10db mark.

So its measured versus perception.



So the 3db increase
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