NOS tubes for Sonic Frontiers Line 1

Jim, I suggest the next group of E88CC/6992 you should try out is the Holland made Philips. I managed to get hold of 3 types of Holland made Philips and my comments are as follows:

(1) Philips E88CC SQ - Same construction as Mullard E88CC, from what I know, Mullard have no plant in Holland so Mullard E88CC most likely made by Philips Holland plant. The sound is refine with good details. Soundstage is quite wide but slightly lack the warmest of tube sound.
(2) Philips E88CC CCa Miniwatt SQ - Great tube! details, dynamics and musical engagement first class. Sound have the magnet feel.
(3) Philips 7308 SQ - Quite similiar to no. 2 but slightly lost in details and also bass is slightly lesser. Overall a very good tube.

Okay, that my comments on Philips E88CC, I hope this is useful to you guys out there looking 6922 replacements.

Jim, as for the reasons for getting a SS amp to match with Line 1, I heard one of setup using line 1 with pass labs amp and it sound beautiful and yet have dynamics of a SS amp. I was thinking to myself that maybe it is time to replace the Power 2 with SS amp.

P.S Forget about Telefunken, they are over price for their performance. I think the price is so high just because it is rare and not because it is the best. My next group of E88CC/6922 to try is Europe made Tungsram and RTC.
Lawrence

My Telefunken E188CC tubes came yesterday, 5/27/05, in the mail. I just could not wait to give them a try. I installed them in the "Line one" back row , installed the Herbie's Hal-O damper at the same level as the upper Mica Wafer. Turned the system on, loaded a CD, set the CDp to repeat, and let the system warm up for about an hour.
After about an hour I sat down for a listen. First impression the tubes sounded a lot like the Amperex white label early 60s PQ 7308 USA tubes. I listened for about two hours. Listened to about five CDs for comparisons. As I listened It seemed to me the tubes sounded to be a little too dampened, seemed to lack Air...The herbie's Hal-O dampers! I pulled dampers off and begain to listen, there was difinitely a difference. More Air, more life like. But I also noticed the vocals were not as smooth and less focused. Bass was not as deep and full, highs not as controlled as they were with the Herbie's on the tubes. I experimented placing the dampers at different locations on the tubes. To make a long story short I found the sweet spot for at least this pair of E188CC tubes. At the top of the tube, just before the tube curves in, to make the top point.
The sound, I listened for about three hours, These tubes are detailed, focused, with a nice smooth full midrange. Diana Krall's piano sounded accurate, natural, full bodied, with authority. Bass was deep, controlled, and full.
One thing for sure about this tube, it Fast and Lively.

These are the CDs I listened to;

Diana krall "Love Scenes"
Diana Krall "The Girl In The Other Room"
George Jones "Cold Hard Truth"
Dire Straits "On Every Street"
Alison Kraus "Now That I've Found You"

Comparison to the Siemens CCa or the Amperex PQ tubes, that will be the tough part as usual but I think the Telefunken will hold their own. The Telefunken E188CC are keepers.

Jim

Jim,I'm glad you are getting a high level of sound from your tube investment.My pal got ripped off on some poor TELE's,so as you know,you must be careful who you buy from.

I just put the Halo Dampers on my phono tubes,last week,with similar results to you,but found that with careful placement on the tubes,and less arm damping,I greatly increased tonal purity.I am in the process of doing some tube rolling,my friend did eventually get Amperex 6922 PQ's,for his phono section,and I am about to empty the bank on some really choice Siemens CCa's.I know I'm paying serious bucks,but I simply have to know,in my own set-up how these fare against my Ediswan 5358's,which have served me well.Good luck!

Sirspeedy, Siemens CCa early 60s tubes, do your home work... Ask lots of questions. Ask for pictures. Here is a Great picture;

http://gon8.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1115367414.jpg

Here is a response I posted on another members thread.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1126736041&openmine&zz

09-19-05: Jea48
Gsselling, I spent most of yesterday experimenting changing tubes around in my Line 1. Lately I have been running a pair of early 60s NOS Siemens CCa tubes in the back row LV1 & V1. In the center row LV2 & V2 a pair of Amperex early 60s PQ USA 7308 tubes.
I moved the PQs to the back row and the CCa tubes to the center row. I new I would here a difference and indeed I did.
I listened for about an hour or so. Then I pulled the CCa tubes from the center and installed a pair of Telefunken E188CC tubes. I had interchanged the Telefunken E188CC and the Siemens CCa tubes in the back row enough times I new what to expect in the difference in sonics between the two tubes. I turned the Line one on and let it warm up for about a half hour. I then sat down for a listen......I listened for about an hour. Playing the same CDs I had listened to with the CCa tubes. The differences were still there but on a larger scale. Confused, yes...I pulled the E188CC tubes and reinstalled the CCA tubes. Turned the preamp back on, waited about a half hour and sat back down for a listen. The difference in sound between the two pairs of tubes is definitely more noticeable in the center row, LV2 & V2 than in the back row LV1 & V1.

Last night I sent an email myself to Chris Johnson.

Mr. Chris Johnson;
I know you have probably answered this question in the past several times. I
am of the understanding that the order of importance of tube placement in
the Sonic Frontiers Line 1 and Line 2 is as follows,
LV1 & V1..... most important will yield the biggest change in sound.
LV2 & V2.....Second most important.
LV3 & V3.....least important.

I have the Line one and have been installing the best of breed NOS tubes in
the back row, LV1 & V1. Early 60s Siemens CCa, Amperex White label PQ 7308
USA made, Telefunken E188CC, and Telefunken E88CC tubes.

Someone just posted a thread on Audiogon saying that "Sonic Frontiers" says
the center row LV2 & V2 will yield the biggest change in sound followed by
LV1 & V1.

Chris will you settle this once and for all. Who best can answer this
question but you the former owner and designer, of the Sonic frontiers Line
1, 2, and 3. Will you please give the reasons why.

Also would you mind if I posted your answer in quotes on Audiogon. I will
only post that part of your answer that you approve.

Thank you very much for your time.

Left my Full name
Audiogon user name jea48
My email address

A simple answer, unsigned:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>"LINE 1, Line-2

Most important.....gain tubes V2, LV2"<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A reply email address,
Information [info@partsconnexion.com]

.
Jim
Jea48 (Threads | Answers)
(edit my post)