Which is the best recording of Bach's Mass in B mi

Timwat,

Thanks for your post. What I'm listening for is detail and separation in the choral parts without being muddied up with bass. So far almost every speaker I've listened to has sounded muddy, especially when the choral parts are introduced. The PSB Platinum T8 were the only ones that I thought produced the sound I was looking for. They were $7,000 and out of my price range. The Maggies were indeed the 1.6. They were probably the next best, but the highs seem to scream at me. They only sounded detailed at high volume levels. Today I listened to B&W 604's with a Yamaha amp like mine. To date, they have the sound I like best. Not good enough to buy mind you. I'm still searching. Understand, I'm new to this and I suspect I don't know what to listen for, or there may be some quality in a cheaper speaker that fools a newbie. I have rambled here and I suspect this subject has become a thread for the Speaker Section. Anyway, I received the Gardiner Mass and it is awsome. The smaller choral group and orchestra sound much better on my small speakers. Thanks to all for the suggestions.

Baileyje, given the listening priorities you've mentioned, I recommend you consider a used pair of Celestion SL700 speakers. These are stand-mounted monitor speakers that should sell for about $700-800 on the current used market, with their dedicated stands. They originally sold for just under $3000 in the late 1980's. The reason for suggesting these speakers is that they are outstanding for voice and choral music, with beautiful and detailed reproduction of midrange and mid-bass (through the range of the cello). On mass choral, they have a wonderful ability to differentiate individual voices and vocal lines. I lived with a pair for over a decade, matched to a pair of 70-watt tube amplifiers.

In my limited experience, obtaining choral music reproduction that is anywhere near the sound of a live performance- in a venue with good acoustics - is very difficult to achieve (though I've experienced some live performances in lousy venues that came close to emulating mid-fi). Obtaining the natural reverb, decay, dynamics, and clarity of a live choral production doesn't seem to come easy on any system that I've heard. Granted,this can be said of most music, but the scale (number of voices) seems to make choral music tough to capture on a recording.

That said, planar speakers seem to do relatively well with this genre. I must admit, I've never owned planars, nor have I heard all of the speakers listed above; so again my opinion is based on limited experience, and may be way off.

Something else to look at though: I don't see any mention of the source you're using. Low resolution players seem to really muddy this area up.

Baileyje, When you say "What I'm listening for is detail and separation in the choral parts without being muddied up with bass," I think that almost reads like a prescription for Quad electrostatics. They have detail, separation, speed and snap, clarity in spades, and there definitely will not be any muddying of the bass with them. The older Quads (bought used) are often employed in stacked pairs by audiophiles who are Quad buffs. When properly set up these can be extremely accurate and impressive. (I don't own Quads but have often listened to various Quad setups and have always been impressed with their excellences.)

I would suggest you avoid anythng with a metal dome tweeter; to my ears these always wind up sounding hard and, well, metallic. For example, I recently bought a new closeout pair of Paradigm's top-of-the-line speaker, the Studio 100 (v.2), MSRP $2,400 the pair. These are big (120 pounds each), good looking, well designed, and built like battleships. Excellent midrange and bass (good down to 32 Hz in the room where I had them), but I just couldn't live with the metal dome tweeters. I should have known better than to buy them, since I've never heard a metal dome tweeter I could live with. (I'm not anti-Paradigm, and I think their top-of-the-line Servo-15 subwoofer is absolutely marvelous, a first-choice recommendation.)

I would also like to support the other post that suggests you look to your other equipment. Those new to high-end audio too often make the mistake of attributing everything they hear to the speaker, and this is an easy mistake to make since after all that's where all the sound emanates. But if you are putting together a first-class system, you have to start with a first-class CD player and first-class amplification. Then you also need high-quality (but not necessarily expensive) speaker cables and interconnects.

It can be very helpful if you have a high-end audio retailer in your area who will actually let you try out various components in your home before you buy them; this is a great way to avoid costly mistakes (like mine in buying the big metal-dome-tweetered Paradigms). However, finding such dealers is increasingly difficult, and as you mention living in a rural area, this may not be an option for you.

I'm been fooling around with high-end audio gear for 40 years (I have at least eight pairs of speakers around here, including several that are big, heavy, and expensive, and three different subwoofers, plus an embarrassing number of amps, tuners, and CD players). I have learned a lot by trial and error (making some expensive mistakes along the way), and now buy gear almost exclusively USED on Audiogon and eBay. You can simply get a whole lot more for your money this way. I hesitate to recommend this process to a relative newcomer, however, because you need to know what you are doing before taking this plunge. Do you have any knowledgeable audiophile friend who could give you a hand?

Do a lot of listening, take your favorite reference CDs with you when you listen, and try to filter out distractions and listen carefully, critically, and objectively, without a salesman jawing in your ear. Even with the best efforts in this regard, however, the moment of truth usually comes when you get the gear home. Many audiophiles have found it works well to start with selecting speakers they really like, and then work backwards, choosing amplification that works well with those speakers. (There is no such thing as "the best amplifier" in a vacuum.) I recommend this approach. Don't let anyone else choose your speakers for you; it's fine to listen to advice, but let your own ears make the choice.

By the way, I have the Gardiner Archiv B Minor Mass, which I regard highly, and thanks to this thread I'm going to acquire the Monteverdi. So I learned something here.

Hope this helps a little, and good luck to you.

Baileyje, I have a good many music reference books on hand, including several recommending classical CDs, and I thought I'd give you the benefit of what they say about the Bach B Minor Mass.

The Record Shelf Guide to Classical CDs, fifth revised edition, 1996, Jim Svejda. Recommends the Gardiner/Monteverdi Choir/Archiv recording and the Rifkin/Bach Ensemble/Nonesuch recording.

Classical Music on CD: The Rough Guide, 1994, ed. J. Buckley. Recommends the Hickox/Collegium Musicum 90/Chandos recording.

Gramophone Classical Good CD Guide, 1999 (12th edition), ed. M. Taylor. Top recommendation is Hickox/Collegium Musicum 90/Chandos recording. Next two recommendations are the Gardiner/Monteverdi Choir/Archiv recording and the Leonhardt/Netherlands Bach Society Collegium Musicum/German Harmonia Mundi recording.

Penguin Guide to Compact Discs, revised ed. 1996, ed. I. March, E. Greenfield, and R. Layton. Top recommendations are the Gardiner/Monteverdi Choir/Archiv recording, the Parrott/Taverner Consort/EMI recording, and the Jochum/Bavarian Radio Choir and Orchestra/EMI recording.

This list of recommended recordings ought to give you a wealth and diversity of interpretations of your favorite work. (I have only the Gardiner one.) Happy listening.