What is the standard for judging a systems sound?


It is often said in these threads that this hobby is all about the music. That live music is the only meaningful standard for comparison when determining the quality of a stereo system. While these words sound good, are they really true?

A violin should sound like a violin, a flute should sound like a flute, and a guitar should sound like a guitar. Many purists will immediately say that amplified/electronic music cannot be used as a standard since a listener can never really know what the intention of the musician was when he/she recorded it, and what that sound should be.

Even something as simple as an electric guitar has multiple settings from which to choose. Electronic keyboards have hundreds of possible voices, so how does the poor audiophile know how the tone was supposed to sound?

These are valid concerns. Back to the purists!
“That’s why only unamplified classical music can be used as a standard!!!” On face value that looks like an acceptable statement. Consider some facts though. In my immediate family we a have several musicians who play a few different instruments. We have an electric piano (due to a distinct lack of room for a baby grand), acoustic guitar, Fender Stratocaster electric guitar, a nickel plated closed hole flute, a silver plated open hole flute, a viola, and a cello.

I have a fairly good idea how each of these instruments sound. One comment I must make immediately is that they sound a little different in different rooms. Another comment, which demands attention: when I bought my first flute I knew nothing about flutes. I began fooling around with it and enjoyed the sound. I liked it so much a bought a better, as mentioned silver open-hole flute. This flute sounded much better than the first flute. The tone was richer (the only words I can think of to describe the difference).

The reason for that background information is to show that the same instruments in different room’s sound different, AND different models of the same instrument have a much different sound!

If we audiophiles are using live unamplified music as a standard there are still several important issues, which must be addressed. How do we really know what we are hearing? What instrument is the musician playing? Was that a Gemeinhardt or Armstrong Flute. What are the sonic characteristics of the specific instrument. Stradivarius violins sound different than other violins, if they didn’t people would not be willing to pursue them so aggressively. Better instruments (theoretically anyway) sound better than lesser instruments. The point here is that different versions of the same instrument sound different.

I have seen the same music reproduced in different settings. I have heard string quartets play in a garden in Vienna. I have heard the Pipe Organ in Stephan’s Dom. I have heard Rock and Roll in arenas and Performing Arts Centers. I have heard jazz played in small one room clubs, not to mention the above listed instruments played in the house.

Each one of these venues sounds different from the other.

When I am listening to a selection of music at home, how do I know how it is supposed to sound? None of the LPs sounds like any of the particular places I have heard live music, while none of those places sounded like any other either.

There is no standard by which to judge the quality of live music since no two venues sound alike. If everyone were to go to the Royal Opera House in Covent Garden and hear Tchaikovsky’s Symphony No. 6 would everyone hear the same thing? Even if they did, and that one concert became the standard by which all other recorded music was judged, would that be translatable to allow the judging of all other music?

I have never heard a cello reproduced as well as my sons playing in the living room. I have never heard better flute players sound better than my own terrible playing at home.

So what do we audiophiles really use as the standard by which recorded music can be judged?
128x128nrchy
It's interesting Nrchy, when I started in this hobby, I began with, and still hold, the assumption that my stereo system will never be able to sound like the real thing. You on the other hand, started with the idea that your stereo should sound like the real thing. This seems to be causing a certain frustration that is quite understandable. Please don't misinterpret my comments, I mean to be respectful; in fact I admire the fact that you care so much about this issue.

I think it would be helpful to forget about the unknown variables and focus instead on the known variables. In your situation, you have resources available that most listeners don't; you are very fortunate. You play the flute and your son plays the cello. Why not make recordings of your son playing the cello in your living room and in a concert hall? You would then have the best possible reference (standard) to use in judging a system's accuracy, since you are obviously very familiar with these sounds.

I am sure that you will arrive at a conclusion to this problem. I admire the fact that your household experiences so much live music making; that is what it is all about.

Best
Nrchy, very nice and interesting post.
Where is your TT fit into the scheme of things (Relativism and subjectivism)?

"When I play a recording of a Cello, which one of those memories is the right one with which to judge the recording?"
- Assume the environments are the same, the Cello (sound) you hear today are not the same as the Cello (sound) tomorrow or yesterday. So, are you telling us there are no "standard"? Thus "subjective"? Is there a thing called "subjective accuracy" ? To whom?

Warning: If you keep thinking like that, you might end up selling all your "Hi-end", quit the merry-go-round, buy Bose, and be content ... :-)
Microphones don't hear sound the same way the human ear/brain does. Once the music enters the mic something, and a large something at that, is lost. It doesn't matter whether it's a purist, unprocessed recording or a 128 channel ProTools mega-extravaganza. Live music is live and it's very different from recorded or electronically assisted music. Music reproduction systems should be compared to other reproduction systems. There's no comparison to the real thing.
Yes Onhwy61, but when we compare systems, should we judge which is superior based on which one most closely approaches 'the real thing', or by which one we find the most subjectively pleasing?... ;^)
Zaikesman, What a loaded question! If one were to respond "subjectively pleasing" you could infer that they didn't care for the sound of the real thing. What person who wants to be respected as a lover of music would ever want to admit that (even if it be true)? Personally I want it to sound as "subjectively" close to the real thing as possible. :-)