Counterpoint SA-3.1 and 5.1


I never see these pre-amps available. I remember them as very easy to listen to while having quite a bit of detail. Are they all dead or is it that no one wants to part with them?
kitch29
The prices of Mike Elliot's upgrades are ridiculous & are probably the highest in the industry. His breakdown of profits, etc., are not in line with industry reality. In my opinion, this expenditure would be the worst investment you could make, & if you bought a used tube preamp on Audiogon for $2375, you could choose some great sounding pieces that you could later resell for much more.
Hey Kevziek...I know what you're saying, but many of us buy our components because we like to listen to music through them. We're not all buying them as future investments. Why buy something if you assume you're going to be selling it in the future? Isn't that some indication that you may be buying the wrong piece?

As far as Mike Elliot's upgrades go...he is pricier than someone like Stan Warren, but he also has a very different business. He's not tweaking other people's inexpensive products to make make them perform better...he's tweaking and rebuilding his own medium priced / expensive products to improve on his own original designs. He has a ratio of 50% parts to 50% labor charge, and he doesn't keep that a secret. His $2,000 upgrade has $1000 worth of parts. A $10,000 preamp may also have a $1000 worth of parts, and may not sound any better. I bet that they'd sound much closer than you think.

Let's assume you're right, and there really is absolutely no resale value for modified equipment. You spend $375 on a preamp, and spend $2000 upgrading it...only to sell it for $375 two years later. If you purchase a somewhat used $10,000 preamp for $6,000, and sell it for $4000 two years later you're still losing $2000 in two years time. The only difference is that with the more expensive amp your putting out $6000 instead of $2375. Buy the used Counterpoint...spend $2000 on upgrades...invest the extra $3625 into mutual funds, and after two years time you will have $761.25 more than you would if you purchased the more expensive preamp (figuring an annual return of 10%). Although the more expensive preamp will have much nicer knobs and look a lot more like a UFO, for what that's worth. The only bad thing about the Counterpoint rebuilds is that you can't go out and listen to them ahead of time, but everyone that enjoyed the sound of Mike's original designs really enjoys his rebuilds.

And to answer Jacks@aol.com...his preamp upgrades do involve a lot of parts swapping, bypassing some extra circuitry, improving the output path, improving the volume control, upgrading connectors, etc. His amplifier rebuilds are partial to complete rebuilds (depending on the cost) that are based on Mike's new designs. I am currently having my SA100 amplifier rebuilt, and the only original part that will be kept will be the chassis. He gives all of the details at: www.altavistaausio.com His Counterpoint rebuilds are actually similar to his new line of Aria amps. They're not out yet, but they look very nice (you can link to them thru his site). He's even offering lifetime warranties. That's pretty decent, if you axe me.
05-23-10: Bigshot
Man I love these sites. Albert.

Wish is was my site :^). I get to cover shows for Audiogon but no closer connection than that.

Reading my comments from nearly a decade ago is fun. I must say that based on that time, the advice I gave still stands today.

Mike Elliott is someone I never get to speak to these days but engineers and designers like he, Steve McCormack and Richard Vandersteen made deep ridges in my audio experience pool and will forever effect the way I view the business.

Some things remain basic audio truth, it can only get so good and some of these guys have been working at the craft for a very long time.
Ever try working on a Counterpoint SA-5000 or a SA-220 and doing some of the modifications yourself that Mike offers? The parts are not cheap and it will take you soem time to do the modifications. I always thought that Mike was expensive until I tried to do tem myself, very time consuming. Plus Mike offers a warranty.