Cryo treated wires?

Ohlala; you argue well. However in your above reply to Hdm you (finally) say: "In a high resolution system, I am sure the difference would be obvious, and if the system was managed well enough, the effect of the cryo would be beneficial." How would you know this? By reading? Why not try listening using rigorous test methods if you need?

I have a high resolution system and the difference using the cryo treated VD wire was very obvious to me-- it sounded nothing like several other regular copper wires I'd tried in this position. I consider Albertporter a well informed colleague too, and his experience influenced me to start trying cryo'ed products-- to my benefit I'm thinking.

What started this whole bit of nonsence was that I didn't add "IMO" to the end of my first post-- sorry for that now. Afterall, much or even most of high end audio is based purely on opinion. Ya' know subjective listening. Yes? Cheers. Craig

In order to cut down the amount of tension involved in controversial threads and subjects, i will post my point of view first and then anybody that disagrees with me will be censored. This will minimize the amount of subjectivity within any thread and help us get down to what will now be considered "just the facts" : ) Sean
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I don't need to test or read to know that any reasonable change in an ultimate resolution system will affect the sound. Similar to what I stated at the beginning, I would be surprised if cryo had no affect/benefit on your nice system, Garfish. But there is a large difference between believing (even 99.999% sure) it would have an effect and publishing on what that effect is. This leads to my point that conclusions based on second-hand subjective information tied with confounded experience is not enough evidence to be published.

"if the system was managed well enough, the effect of the cryo would be beneficial."

I think I overstepped, which makes me a hypocrite. Based on my knowledge, I should have left it at only "difference", or "managed system", not "well managed system". I was thinking of Albert's well managed system, but I, myself, am in no position to comment that cryo does anything, but create change in some circumstances.

"it sounded nothing like several other regular copper wires I'd tried in this position."

Getting warmer.

"What started this whole bit of nonsence was that I didn't add "IMO" to the end of my first post"

Doubt it. I have more respect for you w/out it. This point is stupid, but I would like to see more scientific approach used, in general, on agon posts. BTW - I don't feel tense or have anything but respect for Garfish.

Ohlala; I too will go back and correct some deficiencies in my first post. I tried Virtual Dynamics cryogenically treated 10/4 BX wire and liked the beneficial effects it had on my system very much. That is a fact. The new VD wire replaced a "brightish sounding " old Zaner 6/3 stranded copper wire.

It is my sense that the cryo treatment is pretty important to the sonic improvements though. This is based on past trials as noted below, as well as others reported experiences with cryo. I did not cite these originally as the post was already getting long.

But I can't say for sure if the beneficial effect on sonics was simply due to the new wire or the cryogenic treatment. In this trial they were inseparable, and I don't think VD sells the 10/4 wire untreated. Even if they did, it would be an expensive proposition to purchase, install and try both.

However, in years past I've tried several other wires between main and submain, to include: Romex 12/2 (non-ded.)-- pretty poor; Romex 12/2 dedicated-- fairly good, but soft, and lacking dynamics; Zaner 6/3 stranded, dedicated, direction 1-- very soft dull, boring; Zaner 6/3 stranded direction 2-- much more live, dynamic, somewhat bright, but best of the trials. 3 years later: the Virtual Dynamics 10/4 cryo'ed wire-- a very worthwhile improvement over all others. However, my stereo system was changed (improved) over this time too.

I was able to try these different wires at the time as the electricians had things torn apart and I asked them for a few days to do "testing". They didn't understand but humored me, and even at that it almost cost me a divorce as I had un-installed wires running all over the place on a Fri night., Sat., and Sun.

I just made my original post as a casual contribution to an audio forum "chat room". It was never meant to pass scientific scrutiny for "publishing" as some kind of scientific treatise. I was a Forest Soil Scientist for 30+ years and am well aware of the demands of credible scientific publications.

Ohlala, this has been an interesting exchange, at least to me. You have an inquiring mind and an incisive logic that I respect. I hope I have adequately addressed your reservations regarding my first post. And I also hope that there is no lasting enmity between us. Cheers. Craig

Sean; thanks for a touch of levity. I think this thread has run its course-- and besides we've now got a real war to hold our attention. No Cheers on that;>( Craig