The Great Cryo'd Outlet Test

Zaikesman: It should be noted that there are some people (Bob Crump among them) who have reported that they do not like the results of cryo. We also have Stehno's observation, positive on the iec inlet but actually negative on the outlet (sorry Stehno!), so Stehno is perhaps still up in the air. But it is difficult (at least in my experience) when you are working with multiple/different outlets, and I am the first to admit that I made mistakes under the same circumstances.

It should also be pointed out that it is probably very easy to have bad cryo that may result in thermally shocking and perhaps damaging items (the key, at least to my understanding, to good cryo is very slow ramp down and very slow ramp up) and that, at least on Audiogon recently there have been a number of companies (and I use that term loosely) promoting cryo that, to me, definitely lacked credibility.

I am either deluded or have just experienced good cryo I guess. The outlets I have had done were done by Alan Kafton at Cryogenics International, and I now have a cryo vendor locally at a small family owned heat treating company so have actually been able to drop my stuff right into the unit (which does not look much like some of the wonky photos of cryo equipment being touted on Audiogon!) and then remove them 48 hours later when they are still on the cool side.

In any event, you will find detractors as well as proponents for cryo and the debate will rage on. Your final remarks in your last post are appreciated.

Of course my assumption about Stehno's results is that if he went through the same blind audition identification process on the outlets 100 times, the final tally would be pretty close to 50/50 (implying a success rate little different than pure chance), meaning I'm not ready to ascribe any positive *or* negative qualities based on his findings so far and suspect that there are really no significant differences to be heard either pro or con. But you are apparently willing to assign Stehno a 'negative' audition result for the cryo'd outlet based on extrapolation from this very limited data such as it is. One more demonstration that the human brain incessantly searches raw information for patterns, connections, and above all *meaning* - even if such conclusions may not be rationally supportable due largely to our often-limited observational abilities/opportunities. (Whoops, can I say that and still be an audiophile? :-)

"no significant differences to be heard" Doh!(Stenho did hear a difference, he just didn't "cook" 'em right)

Maxgain,throws back the rest of his snake oil Manhattan, turns his back and leaves the forum... muttering something under his breath about a doubble "deaf" test....silly old farts.....Julian Hirsch couldn't hear the difference......his brain searches for "meaning"......the answer to some question being "NO"........then starts laughing his ass off!

From "The Further Misadventures of Maxgain",in "Shootout at the Tin Ear Corral"

Zaikes. As you know, I'm in disgrace. And I have the perfect response for all of my enemies who have conspired against me in this endeavor. I just haven't thought of it yet. :) (just kidding of course).

Seriously though, I remain a very committed believer in tweaking the electrical for sonic improvements. I've witnessed too many very real improvements to believe otherwise and I certainly cannot explain why.

This was a humbling experience to falsely read these two outlets. I'll admit I was a bit cocky going in knowing that I had the most resolving system I've heard to date. I actually thought it would take me all of about 40 minutes to determine which was which. In fact, I was almost naive enough to declare which was the cryo'ed outlet without ever installing the second one.

As I stated earlier, it would have been perhaps a better test to use non-plated outlets. To more easily distinguish any tizzyness from perceived benefits. Or perhaps, it's best with the plated versions for just such a reason as this.

I am still curious why I perceived better sonic benefits after a few days of burn-in. And I barely gave the second outlet 14-16 hours of burn-in time. Again, that is with my amp (the component where I always obtain biggest benefits from tweaks) plugged into the lower receptacle and the cdp in the upper receptacle. As I stated earlier, the screws were missing from the lower receptacles which would lead me to believe they were perhaps used less than the upper receptables, if at all. I really should install the second outlet again and let it burn-in for a few more days just for my own edification.

At the very least I've learned that even though this is just a hobby and a very enjoyable and even serious one at that, there are always credibility issues in every endeavor. At the very least it's taught me not to be so cocky or even reckless, and I need to be more thorough and methodical if I wish to maintain any credibility. I wondered why Eldartford took such a long time before he came to a conclusion. Now I know.

-IMO

Stehno: I'm going to repeat this again just because I think many people do not really understand it. To get an absolute read on what any receptacle (cryoed or uncryoed) is all about, it is imperative, in my opinion that you run the whole system off exactly the same receptacle or receptacles. I was convinced (for a few months actually) a few years ago that the Arrow Hart 8200 was a better receptacle than the Hubbell 8200/8300 series because I was too cheap to run ALL 8200/8300's in my system. When I did do that it became apparent to me that the Hubbells were better (smoother, much more refined, less forward in the midrange and much more natural).

I am speculating a bit here because I have no experience with the FIM, but from the little I do know, it has a reputation for being a "darker" sounding, more laid back receptacle, which either of the 8200's (cryoed or not) you have cannot be accused of. I wouldn't describe the 8200/8300 as aggresive, but it's probably more aggressive than the FIM. My guess is that the FIM you have would be more similar to a non-cryoed Hubbell 5262 or 5362 or the non-plated (non-cryoed) 8300's that Albert Porter uses.

In my opinion, properly cryoing the 8200 or 8300 (or any receptacle for that matter) gives you a blacker, quieter background, more detailed midrange, more extension and at the same time a cleaner presentation at the frequency extremes. What you described in the high frequencies as being "better" (decay, etc) with the non-cryoed unit is (once again in my opinion based on a bit of experience with this stuff) the slightly "noisier" presentation of the non-cryoed unit combined with a bit of distortion. It's a "zingier", more exciting presentation that is a bit impressive at first (quite detailed, midrange a bit forward, etc. especially after living with the FIM) but ultimately, in my experience, shows itself to be less "truthful" and fatiguing. That is the problem with 1) quick comparisons as compared to living with a receptacle for 2-3 months and becoming accustomed to what it is really doing and 2) combining 2 receptacles (the FIM and the Hubbell 8200/8300) in one system when those receptacles have very different presentations.

My advice to you obviously, when you get your new outlets is to make sure that you're running the whole system on them and eliminate the FIM from the equation. That way, you'll really be able to get a take on them.