Sound without the Preamp ?

I had the same experience with my CJ/AI system. And I am using an old Adcom CD player! Also have an MSB DAC, but removing the preamp (and DAC) makes a bigger difference than including the DAC. I would like to know how these DACs with volume controls rate, or these cheap passive attenuators. I don't wan't to spend 3k on a one box CD player at this time.

I recently bought a Meridian 518 as a de-jitter device and volume control for my 24-bit-upgraded Meridian 563, and took out my Audible Illusions Mod 3 from the chain. I have 3 superb amps - a Plinius SA 100 MK II with MK III wiring, a CJ Premiere 11a, and a BAT VK 200. I had previously shelved the BAT because it was too soft, but just recently also got a pair of Harmonic Tech 9 speaker cables - which mate gorgeously with the BAT. Anyway, the dynamics and bass of both the Plinius and CJ died, but the BAT, driven with balanced interconnects, became absolutely magical! Full range of dynamics, pinpoint imaging, gobs of detail, and deep bass! Just check you dynamics - it's usually what suffers without a preamp. By the way, my speakers are Proac Response 3.5's. Steve

All six previous comments square with my experience, and I found Redkiwi's especially useful. I'm not lucky enough yet to have a CD source with volume control, but hope to get a Wadia 830, 850 or 860 to test against my homemade passive preamp. For those of you with no CD volume control, a high quality passive, which can be homemade--mine is, using dual mono Shallco switches from The Parts Connection, is an option. I also have a CAT SL-1 III with signal path factory-simplified (three or four switches bypassed), and it's not close to as good on CD's as my Shallco passive.

When I bought my first CD player with a volume control (CAL CL-15) I decided to try it feeding directly into my CJ amp. That was two years ago and I still don't use a pre-amp. It works for me and judging from the previous comments, I'm not alone.

I have a solid state system: Older Proceed DAP connected directly into an Adcom 5802. When I used the Adcom GFP 750 preamp I noticed loss of dynamics and clarity. My DAP has a "hybrid" digital/analog volume control. I have read that controlling the volume in the analog stage is the best for resolution preservation, esp. at low volumes. Any opinions on this?