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Shelf Material - Neuance

I started a thread a month or so ago trying to find opinions on the best shelf material. I got some good new ideas, and tried them all out - except one, Maple Butchers Block. McMaster did not reply to my emails concerning Maple Butchers Block - not unusual, I have found many US companies turn a deaf ear to anyone from another country. I did try some local butchers block - stips of heart timber glued together, and the spectral balance was very good, but pace was poor. If Maple is better then it must be much lighter than what I was using (Weight = energy storage = poor pace). The best I tried was a very classy looking Neuance shelf, which you can find out about at www.neuanceaudio.com. I think subaruguru was also trying one and so it will be interesting to see what he thinks. It has a sound, but one that is difficult to pin down. It did not work well on my transport, flattening mid-range images for some reason, but worked well on everything else. I will order some more and therefore be able to get a better measure of its performance, and will try again with the transport (I have since learnt that I should not have used up-turned spikes). The Neuance is fast, it almost spotlights mid-range detail (you hear everything a vocalist is doing), it is very extended top and bottom. It might have a tad too much warmth in the lower mids and upper bass, but I am not sure yet. I love the way pianos sound with it - very much like the real thing (my daughter plays piano and so I hear it every day) - no exagerated presence, but all the natural harmonics of a real piano. I find it works best resting on small 1mm thick hard rubber pads, on a sand filled steel rack, with Vibrapods between shelf and component. I did not particularly like up-pointed spikes underneath it when I tried it but will experiment some more when I have some more Neuance shelves - it is hard to get the full measure of this shelf when I have only one. But I suspect this really is very close to an ideal shelf - very light, very rigid, no noticeable resonances - as I am using it at present. If, like me, you have been looking for a top quality shelf, then the Neuance is well worth a try. My only relationship to Neuance is that the man behind it offered me this ex-demo one for the cost of freight in response to my original post. When I order the next three shelves from him I will be offering to pay more generously for the first one.
redkiwi
redkiwi OP
1,092 posts
 
Hi Ernie. I was wondering when you would try the Neuance. Before I make any further comments, I should point out that the effect of the Neuance changes quite dramatically over the first week. And if you play around with footers, cone direction or spikes during the early weeks then it takes even longer. I know because I made that mistake myself. When you first put the Neuance in place it will immediately sound warm and woolly. It will then tighten up over a period of a couple of days, but will sharpen up too much, flattening mid-range textures and become irritating right in the middle of the spectrum of violins. At this stage you will feel like you definitely did the wrong thing, but to salvage something from your investment you will get this overwhelming urge to play with footers to fix the problem. But if you have more self-control than I, and just LEAVE IT ALONE! - then the upper-mid resonance goes away. What you are left with is truly fantastic. So when I read some of your comments Ernie I wondered whether you had not left the Neuance in place long enough.
redkiwi OP
1,092 posts
 
OK - now for how to use the Neuance. I tried almost everything and found out the hard way that if you want a truly great result you - use a light rigid steel rack, you do NOT fill the rack with anything, you spike the rack firmly to the floor, you put threaded spikes into the top of your rack to support the Neuance on spikes. Don't use any fancy footers under the component and don't mass load the component. Just do this and leave it for a week, and then evaluate it. If you do not end up with a great result at the end of the week then I will eat my hat. I know a lot of people have found benefits from sand-filling, mass-loading, sitting components on bladders and using fancy footers. I know because I have been there and done that, more than once. But they are all just band-aids and no substitute for doing it right. The light/rigid/damped idea is the best way to go because it results in far less smearing, thereby giving better PRAT and resolution. The problem for me has always been that I could not find a product that followed the light/rigid principles successfully. The main problem was always the shelf. MDF is just not good enough and neither is glass. This is why the Neuance is such a breakthrough for me - finally I have been able to realise the promise of the light/rigid theory. Using the Neuance as I have described will allow you to hear your components for what they are - and they are maybe much better than you think. If you want to then tailor the sound you can play with footers, but all you will be doing is adding resonance and smearing to emphasise or de-emphasise one part of the spectrum - the result being a loss of PRAT and resolution, so you need to be judicious with the footers you use. I know I am sounding really dogmatic about this, but I really have played around with this issue a lot, and know a breakthrough when I hear one, and I know the pain I went through attempting to use the Neuance in ways that did not work.
redkiwi OP
1,092 posts
 
Ernie it sounds to me like you are using cones between the Neuance and a wooden rack. If so then you will not be getting the best out of the Neuance. If you can get a hold of a welded steel rack with spikes to support the Neuance you will get a much better result. For what it is worth (which may not be much), I tried the Neuance sitting on metal cones on a wooden shelf at one point and concluded that the cones sounded best if pointed down, not up. But the sound got better if a small sub-table (spiked of course) was used between the wood and the Neuance. The other issue I hesitate to raise is the Red Dawn - I reckon you should at least try something in its place as I have always found it to be too lean through the mids and a little gritty on top. As to mass-loading - what you are doing is adding energy storage (and therefore smear) to lower the resonant frequency of the transport's box. First just throw all the mass-loading away and try the Neuance as I have described - including just letting it settle for a week. If you must, you could then add a small amount of damping sheet to the top-plate.
subaruguru
1,375 posts
 
Ken...thanks for the confirmation.
Mark...given space restrictions, would you recommend going to the trouble of fashioning a metal shelf to sit between my wooden shelf and Neuance? Phew! Think I'll first try Mark's hardened spikes screwed into my wooden shelf; this logically follows my temporary solution using upturned cones. Re a separate "sub" shelf: My mind's eye sees the Neuance as the predominant "sink" here; my wooden rack is VERY heavy, with divided-light leaded glass doors; its heavy 44" wide wooden shelf is of concern, but if anything, I would imagine REPLACING it with something rigid and light
(aluminum honeycomb?... dampened somehow...or a GIANT Neuance?!), rather than affixing MORE mass, however stiff, to it could be a way to go............I'll leave the minimal
CDP lid-damping in place, and let its stock feet dance for now. My take on your other comments is that I could then finalize the tuning by introducing these "EAR" footers and/or swapping out the Red Dawn IC as appropriate to give the lower mids more body, right? A local dealer wants me to try a Siltech IC for a fatter yet resolved signature.
If I recall correctly you like Coincident and Wireworld ICs, no? As much as I struggle with this I'm always wondering if I'm simply hearing the limits of my CDP or Redbook...
Thanks again...and you, too, Dekay. Ernie
PS You guys heard Didier Lockwood's Tribute to Stephane Grappeli (with Orsted-Pederson et al) yet? (SONY/FRANCE)
It's those violin's upper partials I'm trying to get right, for example....Cheers.
jayboard
301 posts
 
Re Subaru's earlier question about loading the top of the CDP, I had an experience somewhat like Dekay's. I've tried Webster's III Collegiate and other serious volumes on top of my CDP (Linn Karik III), but put them back to where they were more convenient for my kid's homework. I don't recall if they did any harm, but I didn't hear any benefit. Recently, I used one of Mapleshade's heavy brass triplefeet cones as a top weight and found a pleasant change. It is now doing its intended job under my turntable, so I didn't play with it long. A visual analogy: If you could draw the shapes of sounds as thought balloons, like in the comics, and you took a pen and inked in a shadow line along the bottom of each balloon -- that's sort of what it sounded like in my system. Subjectively more bottom weight and depth; more distinction among sounds; better attack. Not a big change, but a pleasant one to my ears. I will add some irresponsible theorizing if time permits.
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