Best Preamp = No Preamp?

In order to get rid of the pre-amp, I think a few conditions need to be met:

1) high quality parts for the attenuator at the CD/DAC output
2) enough muscle/high quality parts in the DAC analogy section to drive the cable and power amp.
3) Good cable that's easy to drive
4) Easy load at the power amp end.

I personally consider a Pre-amp is an outboard attenuator + extra muscle to drive the cable and power amp.

In my experience, no pre-amp is always better than a crappy pre-amp; a good pre-amp is always better than having no pre-amp.

But then I have never tried super high quality passive pre-amps.

Undertow, Grannyring, Dpac.

If a colored tube preamp sound better to you, it means your systems are dry and analytic. You're only partially compensating inherent flaws in them. Maybe it's time to invest in better speakers and acoustics, only then will you discover the virtues of a neutral preamp.

Regards,

My experience also:

In my experience, no pre-amp is always better than a crappy pre-amp; a good pre-amp is always better than having no pre-amp.

Jmaldonado

Your comments are so off point. As I have said, I have owned the best high end has to offer. My reference systems consisted of gear all reviewers would say is not dry and lifeless. No flaws.

A good preamp just sounded better then no preamp in every instance over the years with various pieces of gear - all well respected and match well in a nicely treated room.

Tube or SS, a good preamp always gave the music more body and weight. Even with Thor, CJ, Belles, Wavac, AA, top of the line electronics and Silverline, Dali, Audes and other natural sounding speakers that were far from dry.

I have owned several good passive preamps and great CD players with volume and the preamp always helped.

Bill

Jmaldonado
ever hear the term synergy...?
My take on the "high end sound " is the result YOU come to love after much hardware experience....synergy comes to mind...so be it if you call one component dry and and others compensating...Jmaldonado whatever terms you use within your comfort zone remain that.
to me it's as much about finding the colorations in your gear that make your feet tap. If you call your colorations neutral, that's your bag baby and nobody will fault you for that. That's the beauty of this passion!!