How could High End audio be improved?

Products that actually PERFORM. The general public is very aware that you get what you pay for, and also aware of diminishing returns. I don't see hard core hobbiest as the real problem, a lot of us have a rediculas wealth of knowledge that would allow us to get use out of rediculasly good components, but that has no real impact on the general public as far as getting an interest in high end audio. I really beleive that the public is ready and willing to hear and buy superior products, but they have to be convinced, and the only way they will hear it is if it is available. We tend to make it worse by treating affordable high end as junk, when we are trying to convince non-believers that there is really something to it. The vast majority of us didn't start out with the most expensive component of any kind, we 'got' the bug because we heard, got proof, that buying a product geared towards true quality of reproduction was a better buy than the separate market we call 'mass market'. Where are the products that are intended to compete directly with the mass market? Where are the reviews? If they exist, are they accessable to the general public?
My solution would be to actually have them set up and performing, so they can be heard. (I don't mean just there, they should be performing to they're potential). We all know it is possible to put together an analog rig that is far superior for the money that would compell the average guy to start playing his/her records, I would suggest actually doing it, so it could be heard in the showroom and be ready, and PERFORMING, for the consumer.

Sean and Joe both have good points. I am not sure there is a problem. Hi End is what it is. I am personally excited by the multitude of choices and sometimes overwhelmed. Very few people are in to high end and almost all of them have a different opinion about whats good and whats not. Look at all the debate here about breakin, outlets, cryo, to tube or not to tube, Levison, Krell,Pass, CJ on and on. Its really hard to find any two people with the same system and everyone likes what they have. I love my stuff but others might thumb their nose at my cable or amps or pre/pro. As far as HT is concerned contemporary processors handle all standards and are upgradeable. In two channel there are no standard issues. The great thing is the competition and variety. If someone is going to spend thousands of dollars on hi end gear they should thoroughly research the products and listen to them before buying. I know some folks who are capable of writing a big check and don't know what they have or if its a good deal, but they like it. In the end that is really all that counts. Are you happy with your stuff. For most of the people who participate in these threads this is a passion which will never end. Personally I still buy and sell gear regularly just to try something else out. Audiogon and Ebay have made Hi End truly more open to everyone in that one now has a rather large selection to pick from at reasonable prices regardless of whether a particular dealer carries your product.

We must be in a down economy. It used to be a $64,000 question. Or is that adjusted for inflation?

Great thread - particularly some of Sean's comments about the insular aspects of this hobby, involving both the dealers AND the consumers. Some of that can be a real put-off.

Personally, I ran away from my first dealer experience with my tail between my legs the same way that Sean described. I've never been back, even though I've driven past it twice a day every day for the last 4 years. I've got about $17k into my various systems now, some of that would have been theirs had they been a little more in-touch.

I've been scared off by my share of know-it-all hobbyists, as well. The best tutors have been there and back, but don't pause at every point for recognition of that fact. Thankfully, that describes very few here.

I think the pricing, and the haute-sh*t attitude are both very intimidating, and most people can't get past it. They'd rather go down to Sears or Service Merch and pick up a decent Sony or Denon and call it a day, rather than feel like an Alien abductee being probed by a dealer in a dark listening room surrounded by strange kilobuck components and an eerie sense that someone is looking at their watch and clothing with a critical eye and totalling up dollar signs in their head.

Warning: This is a post takes a negative look at hi-fi.

1)Component reviews are unreliable and can't be completely trusted.
2) Spec's don't tell the whole story.
3) Dealer showrooms are set up bad- component synergy, room acoustics, etc.
4) Customer can't bring everything home to try nor can they hear everything that is available.

So it is impossible to really know:
1) What is the BEST stereo for your money.
2) What BEST suits your individual taste.
3) Would you better off spending more money or less money.

So you spend your $10,000, bring it home and hope it sounds good. If you're not satisfied that it sound as good as it should, just spend more money until it does.

Is this why there are arguments about what is the best component? Trying to convince others or yourself that what you bought really is the best?

It does not seem possible to get the perfect system so you can either:
1) accept it and walk away feeling sort of insecure about your purchase.
2) devote a good part of your life to figuring out why not.

I don't see a resolution to any of these problems happening any time soon. Maybe some philosophy here would help. Where's ASA when you need him?

I am more than impressed by the responses I see in this thread. Some excellent points have been hit on.

I would like to add some opinions to the discussion...

The way music is listened to has fundamentally changed. Music is no longer an event for the vast majority of people. In fact, music is everywhere. To the point where it is viewed it as audio wallpaper. Something that needs to be present in order to avoid that most unpleasant of things, silence. Music is so ubiquitous that we believe something is wrong if we hear no sound. It is now ingrained in us that the music will be there, that the music will come to us rather than we having to go to the music.

The whole experience has been cheapened. Listening as people do now no longer requires a commitment. Wherever a person is, be it the doctor's office, elevator, or supermarket, there will be music. You don't even have to hear it.

Listening requires a commitment. On many levels.

In terms of being an audiophile, the numbers continue to shrink. And, it will only get smaller.

The reason being the number of people who participate in the hobby is getting smaller. The emergence of high end audio produced the famed high end audio dealer. Combined with high end audio manufacturers and distributors who appease these dealers, it was a recipe for an industry's suicide.

I believe that love for music, or any hobby, is developed before one reaches adulthood in most cases. Nurturing it will produce a person who is willing to spend a substantial amount of money on their chosen hobby. The high end gears itself heavily toward classical music, and mostly away from the music of children and teens. The music of younger people is not only not featured, but is ridiculed.

Can you imagine a 15 year old walking in to a high end audio store???

As someone who has walked in those shoes, I honestly understand why there are so few audiophiles. Most of these merchants certainly do nothing to encourage the hobby in a young person. Instead, one is greeted with the suspicion that he has either walked into the wrong business or is looking for their parents.

What are the odds that same young person will be "allowed" to hear a Linkin Park CD on that cool looking audiophile rig over there? Getting past that, the dealer will now move into the mindset that either letting the 15 year old near the equipment will result in damage, that it's a waste time showing a $5000 component to someone without a career, or both. This is all on top of an derisive, demeaning, condescending, elitist attitude our beloved high end audio dealer walks around with all the time anyway.

End result? The high end audio shop has produced a very high likelihood of the hobby NEVER being looked at again by that person. He has been chased away.

Would you go back?

But what will happen is that person will still seek to quench the thirst for his love of music. Like electricity or water, people seek the path of least resistance. He will probably venture into the world of MP3, Apple iPod, Circuit City, and pro sound. And, he will be welcomed. With open arms.

This person will not come to worship Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Linn, or Musical Fidelity. They will aspire to Bose, Cerwin Vega, Community Sound, JBL, Rockford Fosgate, etc.

Who will make out better in the long run?

Moreover, the MOST DAMAGING thing occurs; in the long run the definition of good sound does not remain actual music, but the boom and sizzle that the music lovers are fed. A 6db boost at 100 Hz is what "good bass" sounds like, not flat frequency response to 30 Hz. As we go further and further along, we have reached the point where a stereo capable of presenting a realistic portrait of a musician playing in space is met with yawns of boredom. With the feeling that this instead is closer to the music heard in an elevator as opposed to good sound.

We have evolved to the point of seriously listening to car radios, and believing the sound is good. No wonder most feel Bose to be the be all and end all.

Then, we get to money. Factor in the polluted definition of good sound and the results are final.

How much is that component? $5000? Hey, a (whatever) sounds better than that at $800, with a bona fide return policy!

Welcome to high end audio 2003.

I hope that distributors like those encountered by Ernie know which way the wind is blowing. Maybe time to rethink things, eh?