Tidal electronics...

Hi Tbg, although I have lately pleaded for generous amplification with the Tidals myself (it would indeed be a crying shame to leave these speakers famished), I would see the matter less dramatic as to define minimum requirements of 200w per channel for the Contriva. I perfectly understand it leaves one with a feeling of "must have" when Tidal's own web page states: "To use the whole enormous dynamic range of it and listening complex music also from time to time very loud we recommend 200 watts at 8 ohm." Yet, I have been living with the previous model Contriva driven by a Tidal Intra - which delivers something like 2x 120 watts - in a fairly large room. Sure, I have felt the desire to own a pair of Impact monos (and still do ;^)), but, in honesty, not because the speakers were in obvious need of more juice. Of course, stable and fast the appropriate amp should be, allowing the horse called "Music" to jump, run and kick freely as far and high and fast as it can but, by all means, never suffocate it with its bridle. I believe.

In addition to Geopolitis's list, an alternative product that may fill the bill where high power output is demanded is Karan, starting with KA-PAS 450 delivering 2x 360 watts into 8 Ώ and performing naturally and musically refined; no guarantee though, just gut feeling based on limited time spent listening to it in another system.

On my personal auditioning wish-list, I would like to hear what a couple of Einstein OTLs (The Final Cut MK 60) would be able to do paired with Contrivas, although that translates in 2x 60 watts only,... just being curious...

Karelfd, thanks for your informative post. I would dearly love to hear Tidal electronics on the Contrivas, but this looks improbable here in the US. I even thought to come to the Munich Show, but really seldom can generalize from what I hear at shows.

These speakers are so revealing and sensitive to set up and they are evidently still well short of a full break in. I just hate thinking that I am not getting their full benefit.

My best opportunity will be this summer when I will venture to the US Tidal importer's home to hear the Ypsilon hybrid monos and the Sovereign Glory on the Sunrays.

Again, thanks for your post.

Norm

Speaking from experience, and having had all models of the Tidal speakers in my showroom I can offer my advise for proper amplification for each model.

The first thing to remember is that all Tidal speakers like power, but quality power! These speakers will show off what your amplifier is made of.

I find the Piano series to play well with a good 100 watts. It's important that your amplifier is very stable into all impedances, and can supply high current. Therefore I would select an amp with a well designed and strong power supply.

Remember room size also comes into play. If you have a small listening room the amp won't have to work as hard to fill the air space. Large listening rooms can drain your amps power quickly, so make sure you have extra power in reserve for larger rooms.

The Contriva's and Sunray's are more power hungry than the Piano models, and they simply won't come alive if under powered, and you will lose the real magic these speakers are capable of.

Since the Contriva's have a single set of binding posts you can’t bi-amp them. So a really good high power stereo amp or mono block is needed. I always prefer mono amps for a speaker of this caliber, and these speakers will return the favor with greatly enhanced performance. But don't try to skimp on your choice of amp to save a few bucks because the Contriva's won't let you get away with it.

The Sunray's are definitely the most critical Tidal speakers. They will put your amp under a microscope and dissect it. The Sunray's are also the most versatile Tidal speaker, allowing you to run single or multiple amps, and the option of adding Tidal's LPX external crossover, or adding the T-1 sub towers. I started out using 1 pair of Einstein 60 watt OTL amps on the Sunray's to see where I stand. My main listening room is 18.5 ft x 24 ft x 9 ft (WxDxH), and the room is professionally treated and tuned by golden acoustics. Pictures can bee seen on my website at www.aaudioimports.com , or please email me and I will send you pictures.

The single pair of Einstein MK60's certainly did a fine job of driving the Sunray's. These amps have been a favorite of mine for many years now, and on the right speaker loads they are pure magic! And will draw tears to your eye's. If the speaker load is not ideal they will still sound very good, but you will lose a good dose of their magic. Running a second set of the OTL's and bi-amping the Sunray's produced much better results! This was similar to what I heard with the Acapella Triolon speakers.

There are many other high powered amplifiers which will make the Sunray's sing. It really comes down to flavor because the Sunray's will mirror your amp. If you prefer to bi-amp and want the ultimate performance I highly recommend adding Tidal's LPX.

I hope this information is helpful.

Best Regards, Brian Ackerman

US Importer: Tidal Audio

Posted by: Brian Ackerman / Aaudio imports
on behalf of Jorn Janckaz / Tidal

My name is Jörn Janczak from TIDAL, Germany. I want to clear some things if
it comes to the power needs of TIDAL speakers in general. Aside of private
experiences and opinions, I would like to offer my side as the engineer
behind Tidal Speakers and my experience with TIDAL speaker clients worldwide
for over a decade. Now my help and advice:

Electrically, one can run them also with low power amps and everyone should
feel free to check if they will be happy with it. About half of all TIDAL
clients do like to drive TIDAL speakers with tube amps below 100 watts and are
super happy with it. The other half drives them with very good solid state
amps and are also super happy with it. If a speaker is free of flaws and does
not colorize a signal, then one can "color" it with the amp of choice and
give it a preference in tonality.

In fact the Piano / Piano Cera / Piano Diacera series is the "hardest load"
TIDAL has, with impedance between 4.2 - 8.5 ohm, the electrical phase shift is
small, efficiency is the lowest in our range. We do have clients driving it
with 40 watt SET amps and are totally happy with it. Healthy 100 watt at 8 ohm
brings it even further and can drive it to the max, but it is not a must. As with
all TIDAL speakers it grows with the quality of the amps/chain/room. But
from the electrical side it is in fact an easy load. We never go down lower
then 4.2 ohm with these speakers.

Contriva / Contriva Diacera is an easy load at, 4.1 - 6.5 ohm all the time,
very good efficiency for a dynamic speaker with a linear (!) frequency
response. I had clients here in my demo room (40m²) bringing their 25 watt
SET amps, and it played amazingly loud and dynamic. As always; more power drives
it even further and with a real 160 watt at 8 ohms one can drive it already to
the max. excursion (depending on the software one is feeding this speaker
with) into an area where one can risk damage to their beloved ears already.
Absolutely ready for SET. And yes it can handle a lot of power and shows
that the limits can not be touched by 25 watts, but as always; it is a CAN
be, not a MUST to drive it with more power then that. Always quality before
quantity!

Sunray: from the electrical side - most easy to drive speaker. Even
though it has 7 drivers here, the impedance is almost linear at about 4.8 ohm -
5.5 ohm and has almost no phase shifting, the x-over inside is managing it
perfectly to melt all the seven drivers to a single-unit without any
electrical bug inside. Like other speakers can do with dips below 4 ohm,
sometimes even below 2 ohm. We have for e.g. a client driving a Sunray with
30 watt Audionote Ongaku amps in a big room (> 50m² with very high ceilings)
and it sounds great, live and dynamic. Yes, it could play even more dynamic
and louder with even more power, but the difference is like driving 120 mph
or 140 mph. In reality we all listen to normal level with headroom for
louder passages like in orchestral music, not crazy party levels. For those
guys, yes, we recommend power > 150 watts on 8 ohm. For all Tidal speaker models.

To show how "theoretical" numbers, here are some easy simple facts from
physics: 1dB more needs about a third more power, 1dB more is not to hear in
reality terms. 2 times more power just means a level increase of 3dB. Almost
not to hear. So if an amp has 100 watt or 200 watt makes electrical wise
almost no difference. About 10dB more means for the human ear about "twice
as loud", to make this happen one needs 10 times more power! That means: the
client with the a 30 watt SET amp would have to bring a SET amp with 300 watts to say
"now it is about twice as loud".

My point is; electrically one can run it also with low power amps and
everyone should feel free to check if they will be happy with it. About a
third of all TIDAL clients worldwide do like to drive TIDAL speakers with
tubes below 100 watt and are super happy with it. The other clients drive it
with very good solid state and are also super happy with it. If a speaker is
free of flaws and does not colorize a signal, then one can "color" it with
the amp of choice and give it a preference in tonality.

with best regards from Germany,
Jörn Janczak
CEO, TIDAL Audio GmbH

My personal experience with a Tidal Contriva driven by a set of Wavac 805 SET monoblocks (Tidal Preos was the preamplifier) was that this combo was simply magic. There was no problem to play different kinds of music in normal listening levels. We didn't try to play it too loud but if someone is listening to music in normal levels he could hapilly live with such a combo. It was exceptional.