Anybody stop using power conditioning?

With all due respect, I'm kinda' surprised at the strong responses in the posts above.

Yet, each of you who negate the need for a 'good' line conditioner claiming that dedicated lines are all you need also seem to own one or more aftermarket power cables. That would indicate to me that you may not be entirely convinced dedicated lines and outlets alone are the only requirement for cleaning up AC.

As some of you suggested, there are good and bad power conditioners. But there are also active and passive line conditioners.

Others suggest that power conditioners seem to strip something away from the music.

With what little I know, I would probably agree with that last statement if that statement were applied only to some to many of the active power conditioners.

But the passive in-line conditioners I am using have no such limitation.

I have the dedicated lines, the custom 10gauge 99.95% OFC house wiring, the FIM outlets, etc.. I live in a quiet residential neighborhood with no major industry or power stations in the area. And my AC is dirty.

Aside from seperating/minizing the digital and appliance AC noise, I cannot think of any reason why I should expect AC to be clean simply because I installed some dedicated lines.

Dirty AC is dirty AC. With dedicated lines, only now the dirt is dedicated.

I've seen the specs on several active line conditioners and yes, they can be extremely limiting in current capacity.

To give you an idea, one of my smaller Foundation Research LC-1's in-line conditioners (used for my source or pre) has almost the same current capacity as PS Audio's largest P1200 line conditioner.

As for my McCormack DNA-2 Rev. A amplifier, the LC-2 passive in-line conditioner has double the constant current rating of a P1200 and almost triple at peak current ratings.

I've taken just my LC-2 out and ran the custom romex directly to the amp via a hubbell cryo-dipped IEC plug. It took all of 5 seconds to hear that the LC-2 is doing it's job very well especially at virtually eliminating any trace of sibilance that immediately vanished when I put the LC-2 back in place.

In fact, based on this and a few tests similar to this with a few aftermarket power cables, I am convinced that at a certain point in component equipment quality, AC and it's proper conditioning has everything to do with the presence of sibilance in a system or lack thereof.

-IMO

Thank you Stehno. You've summed things up quite well.

Unless one has equipment or power cords with some type of low pass filtration built into it, there is still PLENTY of AC grunge getting into their equipment even with dedicated lines. Then again, one might be amazed at what can be removed from the power line by using parallel filtering and / or high current line isolation devices.

How about i start loaning out one of my AC Line Sniffers to you folks with dedicated lines and you can start checking out just how effective those lines really are ? You can compare the noise on your dedicated lines to what you hear on your standard household lines. I'll even include an adapter so that you can check out just how effective your "mega-dollar" AC cords are at reducing incoming noise. Believe me, what you think of as "clean power" from a dedicated line is NOT pretty. Nor is it "clean". I've viewed it on a scope, listened to it on a modified Sniffer and measured it on a calibrated test equipment, all at the same time. All i can say is that dedicated lines are but a starting point.

My guess is that once you became familiar with what was really taking place in your AC system and knew how to interpet the data that is available to you, you would start re-thinking your investments and start looking at alternative means to power line filtration & conditioning. The cumulative effects of PROPERLY EXECUTED noise reduction in an AC system are both measurable and audible. That is, IF one uses common sense and maintains a low impedance path for the electricity to travel through.

Like anything else, there is a "science" to this. While we don't have all the answers to solve the mysteries of the Universe, mankind is smart enough to figure out a few things here and there. Getting rid of noise on an AC line is one of those things. Whether or not it can be done on a "simple" and "cost effective" basis depends on just how "clean" someone wants their power to be and how many side-effects they are willing to put up with. As such, "clean" is a relative term, just like the words "good", "sufficient" and "working". Something can "work sufficiently" for minimal cost. Something can "work good" for a little bit more money. Neither approach means that they are "working optimally" since that approach typically requires a lot more time, labor and money but all of them would be "working" to one extent or another.

Having said that, most approaches to AC filtration are attempts to make things "better", but are done so in a cost efficient manner. As such, the drawbacks to such an approach are audible side effects due to higher than acceptable impedances and current limitation. Audioengr discussed some of this in a recent AC cord thread and used science / math to try and prove his point. The same principles that allow him to do that also allow us to solve other problems, IF one wants to. Once again though, it all depends on how badly one wants to solve the problem and how many side effects they are willing to put up with. If one wants minimal side effects with maximum performance, one may be required to put in quite a bit of time, energy and money to get there. Sean
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I don't doubt your position Stehno, it's just that in my system every conditioner applied to my main (two channel) gear made the music worse. It would be senseless to continue to use a product based solely on theory.

As already stated, a one time exception was a test with my digital player. Although the Accuphase provided some improvement, it cost six times more than the player it was providing power for.

On the topic of dedicated lines, if they are done properly they reduce the stress of sharing load with other devices. This can be significant in systems where the equipment draws heavy on the line. As for power cords, the good ones are audible whether connected directly or through any of the line conditioners I've tested.

A perfect example is the Walker motor controller. The aftermarket power cable supplying 120 from the wall to the controller makes a big difference in sound. Although this is called a controller, it is a regenerator and therefore, my one "successful" power conditioner.

A sonic signature here was hard for me to accept. The power entering the Walker is converted and then regenerated before outputting to the turntable motor. Logically that would remove any effect or personality the power cord could impart.

Far from it, even after the regenerated power turns that motor which is driving a brass pulley, turning a silk belt that is spinning a 60 pound lead platter on an air bearing, it is not only audible, it can be altered significantly by various brands and designs of power cords.

Crazier still, whatever personality that cable has on the Soundlab speakers, amps, and preamps is exactly the same personally it imparts on the turntable.

So far, all of the power conditioners I tested were effected by the choice of power cable. That personality or sound is also delivered through to everything it is providing conditioning for.

There are two new Audiogon members invited for music this coming Tuesday. If they wish, we can do a quick test and they can post here based on their own listening experience. I will ask if they have interest in this.

Visitors that have been coming around long term are no longer amazed by this, it is taken for granted due to the number of times this has been tested and identified.

Since I moved last year, I have never removed the API Power Wedge Ultra from my sources and preamps, where it supplies filtered, isolated, and balanced AC, or from my amps, where it just filters (it is supposed to work best with everything connected through it and nowhere else). I would be forced to use an inexpensive power distributor to evaluate this, but I guess I really should do a new comparision with and without the PLC, especially since I not only am in a new place, but have replaced a lot of gear since the last time I tried to evaluate the cumulative effect of the Power Wedge. Previously, I never heard a downside, and everything sounds great now too, but empirical evidence-gathering may once again be in order, pain in the behind though it might be. (I should note, however, that I can easily switch the balanced-AC feature on the sources in or out while leaving everything hooked-up and running, and that test causes me to remain skeptical that many of them could sound as good plugged into unbalanced AC from the wall.)

I agree that some power conditioners I tried actually degrade sound more than improve, usual negative effective being rounding/softening of edges producing reduced dynamic contrasts. I am happy with AM Stealth Cryo and won't be removing it anytime soon, haven't noticed any negative effects only positive plus surge protection.

Even people who are averse to power conditioner at stereo outlet should pick up set of 8 Audioprism Quietline III and place throughout house at outlets of usual noise sources: Computer, Refrigerator etc. (I use these in addition to Stealth)