Rogue vs ARC

Luna,

Compared to the ARC amplifiers about which you asked, the Rogue M180s are faster, have a more tightly controlled bass, and possess more air in the top frequencies. The M180 build quality if fine as far as I'm concerned, and I am happy with mine.

I would recommend that you consider what sonic qualities you want from your system and get a preamp/amplifier combination that provides that sonic foundation and go from there. I prefer fast amplifiers; fast, articulate, well controlled bass; and the mid-range and treble that tubes provide. So, for my taste and budget, the Rogue 99 Magnum preamplifier and M180 amplifiers were a good place to start. From there...

I was building my system around Merlin TSM-SE speakers but changed to Silverline SR-17.5s that someone brought into my local shop - that is, I made the change after auditioning the Silverlines at home in my system. I replaced the crossover capacitor in the 17.5 with Mundorf silver/gold/oil, and the resistor with Mundorf as well.

I replaced the tubes in the 99 Magnum preamp with NOS RCA 5692s. I tried NOS Sylvania GTAs in the preamp both alone and in combination with other tubes, but they gave too much sibilance whether they were in the amplification or driver position. For my system, the all RCA 5692 configuration was my preference. If one's system runs a bit dark, then I would not hesitate to recommend the Sylvanias, but in combination with everything else that is going on in my system, I preferred the 5692s.

For the M180s, I had them delivered with the Gold Lion KT-88s rather than the KT-90s. I replaced the 12AU7 tubes with NOS RCAs, and as of this writing am playing with NOS RCA 5751s and NOS Telefunkens in 12AX7 position. I run the amps in triode 99% of the time.

For system interconnects I ended up with Kimber Selects. I auditioned some Audio Magic, but ended up deciding that I wanted to stay mainly with copper. However, that decision was more instinctive than as a result of hearing something in the Audio Magic that I didn't like. Audio Magic is really fine stuff and I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to recommend any of it.

For speaker cables I auditioned vintage Audio Magic Sorcerer, another Audio Magic model that I don't recall, Cardas Cross, Kimber 8VS, 8TC, 12TC, Monocle-X, Select 3033 and Select 3035. For my system I preferred the 3035s and that's what I got. But I have heard the Audio Magic on lots of systems at the shop and they sound great. It's just for my system, I preferred 3035. The 12TC is really nice too.

I put in an audio grade outlet - and yes, it does make a difference.

Every speaker cable, power cord, CD player (Rega Apollo and Saturn - and I got the Saturn), and interconnects, I got to bring home and audition in my system. I had eliminated other CD players from contention in the shop.

Thinking back about it, but not necessarily with the M180s, at one point or another along the way I auditioned probably 10 speakers in my home.

I hope from this you take away the following: if possible, find a good shop and listen to the equipment you are considering. And by "good shop," to me that means they know how to put together a good, matched system for your budget. Also, at the price point about which we are discussing, my shop let me audition IN MY HOME anything I wanted to hear. And if they didn't have a particular cable in the shop, they called the manufacturer and got demo pieces.

My system in still breaking in and keeps getting better and better, but the sound has already been described a few times as addictive. I sure love it! But I arrived at where I am with my system by knowing what I wanted, having a good shop that knew not only how to match components but which components would provide the sound qualities I wanted, and trusting my ears more than what I read on the internet or from responses from people like me!

Good luck and I hope you end up with a system that gives you a lot of listening pleasure.

Reynolds853,
Thanks for your in-depth description on your post. What you said about the Rogue M180s being faster, have a more tightly controlled bass, and possess more air in the top frequencies - is the exact information I am hoping to find out as this will be a perfect match with the slower sounding Harbeths. As with its reliability, I have owned Audio Research VT amps before and to be frank, mine have gone for minor repairs quite a few times. I am convinced by the other posters that Rogue make quality products on par with AR. I will surely follow their products and hope to audition one in the near future.

Luna,

Thanks for your reply and I am glad you found it useful. In my post I wanted to make sure that I answered your question right away before I started rambling!

The guys at my local shop speak very highly of Harbeth speakers so I'm sure you are going to build a very nice system.

Also, regarding Rogue, my experience with them has been excellent. Mark O'Brien has been quick to respond to my questions about tubes whether I was asking them via my dealer or just emailing him directly. Also, when we ordered my preamp, we asked for a non-standard feature to be added and Mark was very accommodating for what I consider a very moderate up-charge. I am very happy with my system.

I used to sell both ARC and Rogue for several years. The Rogue gear is nice for the money and more round and tube colored sounding. Bass is not as extended or tight, highs are not as extended or open, nor is there as much detail. But the sound was always nice and musical.

Build quality, parts quality and design sophistication with the Rogue are not at the level of ARC, regardless of how you feel about their sound. Rogue uses more off-the-shelf and ordinary parts including transformers, where ARC uses more specialized parts (output coupling caps) and proprietary custom designed transformers, nicer circuit boards with double wide traces, etc... Fit and finish with ARC is better and more consistent including the chassis and even shipping cartons and packing methods. ARC gear is quieter and more immune to noise issues even with their non-balanced gear.

Rogue gear is more like a good home brew design where they ordered circuit boards and metal work to make it more professional. ARC sets a standard for build quality and sound quality that other companies have tried to equal for decades.

Again, none of this means you have to prefer one sound over the other. But to me it is no contest.

I imagine Rogue would acknowledge as much on the parts side to the extent that they offer the Magnum upgrades to most if not all their products, but value on their standard offerings would seem to me their driving mission. I can't imagine anyone would ever argue that ARC is not one of the finest manaufacturers in the audio business (and has been for a very long time - an American Luxman?), aside from issues of sound, they make execeptional quality products and provide first-rate support (Rogue may too, but I've never owned their gear...)