newbie 1st post 2 channel reccomendations.

Keith:

Natnic and RNM have given you good advice.

They just happen to be dead wrong.

Find speakers that you love. Your auditions of the ProAc and the Thiel speakers should be helpful as well as instructive. ProAc and Thiel both make well regarded speakers. Quandary: they sound different. That means that one of them is "wrong" or both of them are "wrong."

I repeat: find speakers that you love. Keep listening. It would be nice if the speaker you like is high efficiency. No big bucks to shell out for big amps.

This may be a heresy around here.....but: most audiophiles could not pick out a $500 front end from a $5,000 front end in a properly set up double blind situation. (We are talking digital front ends here......analogue involves another transducer!) Almost all humans, audiophiles or not, can hear differences between most speakers.....from the next room, blind, double blind or blind drunk.

Above all----have fun in the quest.

I think it will be easier for you to receive more useful recommendations if you post again after your upcoming audition. Explain what you liked or didn't like about listening to that system. That will give you and those who would make recommendations a better baseline from which to operate.

Cloudgif would be right if the component that made the biggest audible difference were the one that made the biggest difference in musical pleasure in the long run. But it isn't. The fact that you can hear big differences between speakers means they will give you different sounds, not more musicality and more of the music. That comes from the source. Small differences at one level of attention can make huge differences in satisfaction with the experience of listening to a piece of music. And it is just amazing how good even modestly priced, well made speakers can sound with a good source and amplification. One way to put it is that modest but quality speakers can present the subtlties that distinguish good sources, but expensive speakers cannot makew up for what poor sources lack.

By the way, if the fact that 2 pair of speakers sound different means that one or both is wrong, then all speakers are wrong, since they all sound different, and none of them sounds like live music. Right and wrong are not what is important: engaging, satisfying music presentation is what matters.

Cloudg if is of course right that you should get speakers that you love. I didn't suggest you shouldn't care about speakers, but that you should spend more money on source. And I also suspect it is more or less true that, in digital from ends, you reach a point of diminishing returns fairly quickly; the 4k CDP isn't going to sound that much better than the 2K one, if both are good. But he's wrong that the $500 player will not be distinguishable from a good, more expensve one. I auditioned (long ago, now) a Rega planet ($850 at the time) against a Naim CD3 ($2k then) and while I bought the Rega -- which sounded way less jittery and glaring than all the Sonys, Rotels, Cambridge Audios, and Arcams I had heard -- the Naim was vastly better, albeit in subtle ways. Better in tune, better rhythm and timing, more resolution without being harsh. $$ made me buy the Rega, and while it's really nice and all, i wish i had spent the extra. My real cheap ($550 or so TT set up is so much better sounding that I just don't listen to my CDs very much, which is a shame. Of course, If I had spent less on the speakers, which came to about $2k, and which are wonderful, but too revealing for my sources, I could have gotten the NAIM, and i believe I would have been better off.

Of course, its even harder to hear differences in amplifiers than in source (except for how loud they go); but certainly there is a difference in musicality between a good $500 and a good $1500 amplifier.



RNM

thanks rnm;

took a look over at the naim website but couldn't find the nait listed although i did find it in the blue book. having just started researching tube amps, i'm surprised by how low the wattage is on them. i'm sure they're ok but there is such a difference from ss. sure i'll learn alot more when i start demoing them.

as for sources, i hear you. i don't plan to spend more than 50% on speakers, the rest on power and source, luckilly i'm not into vinyl so can save some $$ there.

i'm probably going to end up buying all the gear from the same store, since i can't see a way to demo components from different stores at the same time, unless i get some good reccomendations. i'm also looking at the used market. seems like there are alot of good deals out there.

wrote my last response above last night before i went to bed, but didn't post until i woke up. so the only thing i read before the post was rnm's original informative reply. i'm really astounded by the number of quick responses and thanks to all. by the way, what is PRAT?

i'm aware that there are several camps e.g. source vs. speaker, tube vs. ss, etc. and will look into all options, as i'm not in any rush.

will definitely post after audition, in the mean time just looking for a few product suggestions to be thrown my way to research. are there any widely regarded manufacturers to be sure to check out.

natnic: this will be a totally seperate set up from my ht. but thanks for suggesting using the ht. i guess that i can use the ht to help with in home auditions. my ht is polk lsi 15 mains, b&k avr 507 receiver and phillips 963sa dvd/sacd player. i am happy with this except that bass is loose and muddy, sounds over driven at higher volumes (not even reference), 2d soundstage, weak imaging, and speakers too noticable (easy to localize). i'm quite happy with the tone/timbre in general although brass seems to be distorted and orchestral music sounds homogeonized, but at the same time lacks coherence. hope this makes sense. never described my impressions of sound before.