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newbie 1st post 2 channel reccomendations.

hey guys:
putting together a 2 channel system for the bedroom, wife and kids took over MY downstairs theater and banished me to the bedroom. at first distraught, i was relegated to ht forum surfing and arrived here. since i had been mainly using the theater for listening to music anyway, i eagerly surfed the auidiogon waves all hours of the evening. a few days ago,the warden (my wife) gave me permission ( am i p-whipped or what) to put together a stereo system in the bedroom. i have home theater experience but have never put together 2 channel system and know nothing about tubes but will soon be enlightened
a little info:
room size: 18'x14'3" with 8' ceiling (flat)would prefer speakers on long side of room cannot be more than 2.5' from front wall lot's of room from side walls, bed in middle of room but can be rearranged.
musical preferences: classical all types, jazz, pink floyd, eagles, elton john
budget: 4k not including accessories
system: intergrated amp or seperates, cd or sacd or universal player, monitor speakers with possible later addition of sub.
mostly moderate occasionally loud listening levels

i have access to almost anything since i live relatively close to la and san diego but everything is also 1-2 hours away. therefore, all help in narrowing down options is appreciated. i have set up an audition of proac studio 100 with jolida jd502b integrated amp and jd 100 cd player next week. will possibly audition thiels on monday. also looking at taylo ref monitors and classe', plinius and possibly bryston. may later use this in new theater so may chuck budget and purchase good multi channel amp eg. BAT vk6200 or bryston or something similiar.
all input will be greatly appreciated including equipment and room setup/speaker placement suggestions. basically, tell me anything you want because the kids just got a bunch of dvd's and i'll be here all night.
i know this encompasses alot so just do your best.

aloha keith
Ag insider logo xs@2xatagi
rnm4
308 posts
 
PRAT = Pace, Rhythm, and Timing. British gear -- like Naim and Linn -- are famous for it. This is an emphasis that contrasts with that on soundstaging, timbre, "air". If you think about it, live music, unless you are sitting way too close, rarely presents much of a soundstage. Not thhat perfect reproduction of live music is a viable aim, but this does show that soundstage is an audio, and not primarily musical, artifact. (HT is a very different matter in this regard).

IMHO, you shouldn't spend more than 25% on speakers -- about 45% on source, 25% on amplification, and 5% on interconnects, isolation, etc. Also, at the level of $ you can spend, I think it would be a mistake to emphasize wattage. Just make sure the speakers you get are reasonably efficient and easily driven. And definitely consider used gear. You'll save huge $.

RNM
Ag insider logo xs@2x
atagi OP
98 posts
 
hi guys;
went to pasadena today and auditioned the dynaudio audience 52 with rotel rdv 995 dvd player and rx1050 receiver. overall, i was quite impressed with this system versus my current system listed above. i would have liked to have demo'ed the dynaudio's at home with the b&k but they don't allow this. sound was alot cleaner and tighter especially in the bass. much more musical, i didn't feel that the trombones in berlioz's symphonie fantastique were a foot away from my ear. i was able to lose myself a couple of times even though street noise could be easily heard in the listening room. piano almost sounded real, the notes seemed to hang on as long as possible. they didn't want to leave. vocals were easily located although multiple voices seemed scruched a little.
spent 2 hours there mostly talking to vince the sales guy about music and gear. i learned alot. he is an audiophile in the truest sense, this guy loves music. he made me want to go home and listen all night. to him, music is a spiritual experience and i think a little bit rubbed off on me today, thank you vince. didn't push anything at me and spent those hours with me knowing that i wasn't going to buy anything today and was planning to audition for several months.
overall, i say today was an excellent first audition for the new system. didn't get to listen to much music but what i learned was worth alot more. i have had several bad experiences recently at the brick and mortar stores but it's guys like vince that keep them alive.

aloha keith
ffontan
66 posts
 
Atagi

I'm somewhat of a newbie to this hobby too, but I've gotten to audition some gear.

I hear you on the Polk LSi15s. I think the problem you have with them(the loose bass) is that, they need an amplifier with (REALLY)high current capability, and a high damping factor to excersize control over them; and most receivers are not very happy driving them. Try moving them around too, play with position...

I have a Perreaux Radiance R200i integrated amp, and took it to the Polk LSi dealer close to me. The guy couldn't believe how good these speakers sounded when driven by my amp, and how different it was when they were being driven by a receiver(even a really good one like your B&K, well he was actually using the top of the line Pioneer Elite which is competitive with your B&K).

In general these speakers are really good, but they do like a lot of power.

Another thing is, I do agree with some posters here, selecting a good source. Recently I've been auditioning CD Players and had the chance to audition a Linn Ikemi, side by side with an Arcam FMJ CD33. While it comes down to personal preference, I had no trouble noticing differences right away, and thinking the Ikemi was more to my liking. Anyway sources do make a difference.

I do believe things should be somewhat balanced, but in the end, the only person that has to like it is you. So it really doesn't matter if you spend 80% of your budget on speakers and the rest on electronics, or vice-versa, as long as you are happy with your selections.
cloudgif
19 posts
 
Rnm you write that I am right (that speakers are the the most "distinguishably different" and, therefore the most important component in a system) but only if the differences in speakers bring one the greatest listening pleasure. (see posts above)

You go on to say that better speakers don't make as significant a difference as a fancy front end in imbuing the reproduced sound with "pace" etc. You also opine that I am wrong that most audiophiles in a controlled, double blind listening "test," could not tell the difference between a competent $500 digital front end and the fancy, high-priced spread.

You support your disagreement as follows: "he's wrong that the $500 player will not be distinguishable from a good, more expensve one. I auditioned (long ago, now) a Rega planet ($850 at the time) against a Naim CD3 ($2k then) and while I bought the Rega -- which sounded way less jittery and glaring than all the Sonys, Rotels, Cambridge Audios, and Arcams I had heard -- the Naim was vastly better, albeit in subtle ways"

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But you are not really answering my "challenge." You tell us that the Naim was vastly better but you don't mention the methods you used to determine that. Clearly you did not put your ears in the "hotseat" of a double blind test.

I'd like to politely drop the gauntlet at your feet. See if you can pick out the Naim (or a current "equivilent" piece) as the "superior" front end in a properly set up double blind situation. I'll bet all the toe-tappin' pace and slam from here to Scotland that you cannot.
natnic
33 posts
 
Cloudgif.

If you where any more off base I could not imagine.

Why is it that a 850.00 Rega Speaker kept sounding better and better as the front end got better and better.

I had the pleasure of bring a music lover who has never been exposed to high end.

Over and over again the sales guy was able to demonstrate.

That no matter what speaker he chose for us the better the source the better the sound. Over and over again.

Others walked into demo room and same deal consistently when the better sources where added the better the sound.

In the end we detirmend that and 850.00 Speaker with a 3200.00 front end sounded much better than a 3000 speaker with a 1000.00.

So to make sure this was not Illusion we tried the same thing on Audio Row in Seattle and every where we went the same speaker allways sounded better with a better source.

GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT.

Please inform us as to what a proper Double blind test involves.

Here is wow it was done.

Speakers set up same amp pre amp same cables same everthing.

3 Cd players in rack along side gear.

sales guy just switched RCA from one to another back and forth.

Then we trie it with different speakers.

Same way. Same result.

Would be willin to take any speaker you choose and play it with a a CDP's from the same MFG. low mid and high level units from same mfg.

If there is no difference then I will tell you one thing.

The speakers are not worth buying.

The Biggest profit and markups are in Speakers.(cables Another story in itself)
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