Jazz for aficionados

Rok, we're discovering the same thing at the same time, and it's so absurd. Everything with an African origin is changed to something else. If you recall the soundtracks to old movies with a Brazilian or Mexican settings, that was "Afro Cuban music". Some people have a "photographic" memory, I have a "phonographic" memory. I recall when I was in my early teens, seeing a movie titled "In Brazil" with Glen Ford, and there were several dance scenes, and the music was the same as what I heard on this CD titled "Cuban All stars", that's what I'm talking about. They never gave the people who created the music credit for it.

Enjoy the music.

You lost me now. Or, maybe, you lost yourself with your unwillingness to be a little more openminded. Rok, at this point in the discussion we were talking about latin music or latin jazz; what you referred to as "so-called Latin stuff", and NOT traditional jazz. My references and examples of what influenced the shaping of this music are established facts. We may not like a particular music, but that doesn't mean we can try and change the facts. The irony here is that it was you that first brought up latin music with your reference to the Buena Vista SS, and referred to it as Afro Cuban Jazz; doubly ironic, because if you were to ask fans of the music for examples of Afro Cuban Jazz, BVSS would probably be at the bottom of the list. So, to paraphrase you: Which is it, is "so-called latin stuff" jazz or not?

Anyway, it seems to me that I have been here before in discussions with you, and I will take a cue from experience and bow out; this is too nice a thread for silly bickering. My comments speak for themselves.

Peace.

****and it's so absurd. Everything with an African origin is changed to something else****

I find that comment fascinating on several counts. Yes, it's true that throughout musical history (and history in general) there are many unfortunate examples of African contribution to the art not given sufficient credit. But, don't you think that it is a kind of political correctness, to suggest that also giving credit (correctly so) to the contribution of other nationalities to an art form that is clearly a melting pot of many influences, somehow detracts from the importance of the African contribution? In fact, what has been happening in recent times is exactly the opposite, and demonstrates the danger of political correctness in the arts. The incredibly rich African contribution is now highlighted at all cost, at the expense of other contributors, and even exploited to make political statements, or for profit. The danger is not only that others are denied deserved credit, but that by it becoming politically incorrect to criticize art with African origins, we actually hurt the artistic heritage of a culture (think rap).

I am at a loss to understand how acknowledging the fact that Latin music is more than just a single, African influence somehow detracts from the importance of the African influence. Rok challenged one of my comments this way:

****"Ok, take away the Spanish, and Arab components and what is left? Drumming?"

You might want to reconsider this****

Really? Let's delve a little deeper and actually see what is left if one takes out the Spanish and Arab components. But, lets have more than just opinion; let's use concrete examples and analysis.

Your example of the movie "In Brazil" is an interesting one. Brazilian music is acknowledged to have a strong African influence. How do you propose that "credit" be given? Should every Holywood movie with a John Williams score give credit to the folk music of the native people of Hungary, since Bela Bartok had some influence on John Williams' composition style, and the music of Hungary was an influence on Bartok? Pretty convoluted, no?BTW, correct me if I am mistaken, but I think the movie that you refer to is "The Americano", set in Brazil. The reason that the music sounds so much like the music in "Cuban All Stars" is that the composer for the score in "The Americano" was Xavier Cugat, who I am sure you know was a Cuban composer. Actually, he was not Cuban, he was Spanish and spent many years in Cuba. See, as I have been saying, in this music there is more than one single important influence and they are all connected.

To clear the air:

First:
I was mistaken when I refered to the Buena Vista Social Club Cd as Afro-Jazz. My mistake. No where in the documentation that came with the CD does the word Jazz appear. I loved the music whatever it is, and I am sure it's african based. My ears tell me that. And that is my only point. It is not spanish and the indians were wiped out eons ago. So what could it be? I will not considered those pesky aliens from the crab nebula.

Cheers

I will answer your other 'points' in a while.

O-10,
It's sort of like politics. Either you define and defend yourself, or others will do it for you. 'Others' are trying to define Jazz. Although the odds are overwhelming, I for one, am going down swinging. 'Others' have already destoryed: Rock & Roll, Gospel, Blues, R&B, Country and Western, and Country. Jazz and Blue Grass are now under attack and have been for a long time. Once they go under, that will be the end of AMERICAN music. We will be a big ball of diversified multicultured, internationalist noise.
Classical is under attack also, but it's not American in orgin. Who is attacking this music? The below average, The average, the wannabes, the non talented, the 'if they can do it, I can do it', the 'I should be able to be WHATEVER I DESIRE to be' crowd.

Buy and enjoy the good stuff while yuu can.

Cheers