Fuses that matter.

Well, I was done with this thread but now that there is some more real data to apply, what the hey. Thanks Bryon (I think).

SO it makes sense to me that resistance and voltage across different fuses varies somewhat and is not exactly the same.

Also makes sense to expect fuses with more quality build, cleaner etc. to measure better in these regards. That probably applies to most any electrical part that affects the signal in gear. NOthing much new there. The thing with fuses is that they are relatively easy to change and experiment with if one is so inclined in most cases say compared to soldered parts like caps, resisters, transistors, etc.

That helps confirm some useful guidelines that make sense for deciding which fuses might perform better than others which is useful.

The article is vague though about what sonic differences were heard with different fuses and to what extent. ALso no info if these differences are unique to specific gear or general to all. SO there is a value determination to be made that individuals will make differently.

In the end it would seem to make sense to assure one uses a fuse with good relative build quality. Nothing mysterious there! Some might deem it worthy to invest time in comparing sound of different fuses in their system. Others may not. Nothing new there much either.

In general my opinion is that every part that affects the signal path that goes into making a piece of audio gear affects performance to some degree. The question is always how much and whether it matters to the user. THe answer lies largely with the needs and interests of the user more than anything else.

So what is it we are arguing about again?

Mapman, you said,

"SO it makes sense to me that resistance and voltage across different fuses varies somewhat and is not exactly the same. ....nothing new here."

Uh, Mapman, I think you better look at the data again. The data also shows measured differences were due to fuse direction. Hel-loooo! What does your intuition tell you about that data? Lol

Tootles

Hi Bryon,

Thanks once again for providing the reference. I applaud HiFi-Tuning for providing these measurements. However, IMO they provide the basis for a good case as to why fuse upgrades shouldn't make a difference, or at least a difference that is necessarily for the better.

In interpreting the data, btw, it should be noted that where the numbers they present that have commas separating groups of digits, the commas represent decimal points. So "24,077 milliohms" means "24.077 milliohms."

Earlier comments by Roger and by me apply to the resistance and voltage drop differences that are shown on the first three pages of the reference. On 4-29-12 I said:

Even if the upgraded fuses reduced those voltage drops and fluctuations to zero (which they won't, of course), would such small differences have any audible significance? I suspect that with some components in some systems at some line voltages there might be a marginally perceptible difference. However even if there were a difference, I don't see any reason to expect that it would be consistently in the direction of being better. Especially given that at many locations these days the AC voltage at the wall outlet is higher than the 120V or thereabouts that the components are presumably voiced at.

On page 3 they state in reference to the resistance measurements that:

There is a measurable difference in directivity of fuses. Mostly that will be due to the way the melting wire is manufactured. The difference is in the range of 5%.

In fact, all or nearly all of the directional differences in resistance were vastly smaller than 5%, with the exception of the "standard glass fuse." However, even in that case, if per my comment and Roger's comments the OVERALL resistance for both directions is insignificant, the DIFFERENCE in resistance between the two orientations will certainly be insignificant.

On page 4, section 3 refers to a table of vector impedance measurements, but that table and those measurements do not appear anywhere.

The remaining section that presents data, section 4 beginning on page 4, opens with a statement that I certainly agree with:

The measurements done so far showed some measurable differences between fuse [sic], but didn´t explain completely the sonic differences between fuses.

It then goes on to present data for thermal noise, and for an increase in thermal noise.

What the "increase" is with respect to is not defined, so that data is useless. And in any event the numbers shown are not large.

The numbers presented for thermal noise measurements are so infinitesimal as to be laughable, being a fraction of a millionth of a volt in nearly all cases, including the standard glass fuse (on a 120 volt waveform no less, or perhaps it is even 240 volts!). A modest length of wire will pick up more noise than that from AM and FM radio signals that are passing through the air. And of course that noise level will be swamped by the noise produced by the parts and circuitry in the components, and the noise that will be present on the incoming AC (even if a power conditioner or regenerator is used). And that is all not to mention that the millionth of a volt of noise will be greatly reduced by filtering and noise rejection that will occur in the power supply and other circuitry of the component.

As I said earlier, I don't exclude the possibility that a fuse change can make a difference, but once again the explanations that are offered in support of the existence of those differences do not withstand quantitative scrutiny.

Best,
-- Al

Bryoncunningham, I think in line with European practic, in this chart comma means period and visa versa. Not unexpectedly there are variations; the real question is are these the differences that impact on the sound.

I now use mainly the HiFi Tuning Supreme, of course, but earlier I had carefully compared the first HiFi Tuning with the IsoClean fuses and preferred the IsoCleans, which are now clearly outperformed by HiFI Tuning Supremes. Maybe were I to take the time, I could identify both the early and Supreme HiFi Tuning fuses to assess whether some of these measures would correspond to what I heard.

Geof from Machina Dynamica asked:

"The data also shows measured differences were due to fuse direction. Hel-loooo! What does your intuition tell you about that data? Lol"

I've already stated that back towards the beginning of this thread. See below.

Tootles?

---

04-27-12: Mapman
Well, there must be an explanation if a difference is heard.

MAybe the fuse line material is not electronically consistent from end to end resulting in non symmetric electrical properties that come into play when direction is switched?

When a fuse blows, the gap can seemingly occur anywhere,wherever the conductor is "weakest", and commonly towards one end or the other so that would be consistent with this theory.