Amp stands- Do they work?

Thanks Nanderson. But, with respect, I find your criteria underwhelming. I suspect the reason why we differ here can be sourced to your view that software, speakers and room make the biggest difference. This leads me to the view that our perspectives on reproduced music are very different. To simplify what I mean (and therefore shorten this post) let's just consider the relative importance of speakers versus a power amp. The very common view appears to be that speakers make more of a difference than power amps. This is true if you believe that the distortions in a stereo are completely measured by measuring frequency response anomolies and that bigger anomolies are always worse than smaller anomolies. Amplifiers tend to measure ruler-flat, but no speaker ever does, therefore speakers make more of a difference? I disagree. Differences between speakers are always very obvious in the short term (such as in a double-blind test). Differences in power amps are much less obvious in the short term (hence why people get confused during double-blind tests). But I still do not agree that speakers make more difference. Why? Whether you are listening to live music or a stereo, the sound that reaches your ears includes distortions that your brain attempts to resolve in order to make coherent sense out of what it hears. What I and many others have found is that certain, seemingly small distortions, which the brain appears to resolve in the short term become irritating distractions from enjoying the music over the long term. Perhaps the nature of the distortion is such that the brain can resolve it with some effort, but over the long term the effort is fatiguing, and therefore not conducive to musical enjoyment. This can come down to small things like whether you use brass spikes or steel spikes under your amplifier stand. While these things can be insignificant in a brief demonstration, the relief when they are removed after prolonged listening can be enormous. A good example of this is the way many sigh with relief when they replace their solid state amp with a tubed one - yet in a brief listen or with measurements the solid state amp may be objectively more accurate. So, back to speakers versus amps. For me, the distortions that are important are the ones that detract most from long term musical enjoyment - since that is my goal in this endeavour. In the case of speakers, I find there are very few that cannot be made to sound musical by appropriate set-up, room treatment and partnering electronics. On the other hand, I cannot say the same about power amplifiers. It is almost impossible to make an unmusical power amplifier sound good. Hence, for me, both your steps are flawed. I can well imagine that these steps work for you. No doubt we all have different musical values and different distortions irritate us differently. Perhaps those distortions that are obvious at a short listen are the only ones that irritate you. Perhaps you very rarely listen to your stereo and so short term listening is relevant to your listening habits. Perhaps you have lousy hearing and the effects of bad electronics are lost on you (lucky you). Perhaps you have such good hearing that distortions that only reveal themselves slowly to me are immediately obvious to you. Any one of these explanations makes us both right. Who knows?

Redkiwi--- I enjoyed your well stated post (above) and agree heartily. It really is about the psychology of hearing, and of course an important element of this psychology is time.

Thanks so much Garfish. I have been a little ungracious in my replies to Nanderson, and hereby apologise (again). But years of hearing from the measurement clones trotting out the same or similar stuff has led to me getting worked up about this topic. I do not expect them to accept my opinions about how something sounds, but when someone asks for opinions on such a thing (as occurred here), you get these flat earthers insisting your opinion is deluded and demanding proof. It might even be tolerable if it wasn't so repetitive. Even if our opinions are deluded, at least there is some variety to them.

Redkiwi, I agree with your thoughts concerning the importance of speakers versus amps. And with Garfish's comments about the psychology of hearing. Although I have strong feelings about my personal choice in a speaker, your statement about the effect of a non musical amp are absolutely true in my experience. All of the variables in a complex system have to be addressed, and impossible to assess in a momentary blind comparison. In addition, Nanderson appears to have motives totally unrelated to enjoying music. Several of his postings contain comments that sound like the views of an investment broker. Perhaps with a eye toward the spending on music and equipment, when those dollars could be directed toward goals of financial freedom he speaks of. Would there be a commission involved?

Thanks Albert Porter. There are some questions I have been meaning to ask you (and anyone else, of course), since we seem to have some things in common. I note that you have clearly spent a good deal of time and money on the issue of vibration control. Although I have spent a lot of time on this too, I feel I am at best only half-way there to understanding how to use this variable wisely. Any insights would be very much appreciated. The other question I had concerns your thoughts on an appropriate strategy for putting a total system together. I raise this with you because of my whole-hearted agreement with your comment that all of the variables in a complex system have to be addressed. For example it is probably obvious to all that one should spend more on your amp than your amp stand. But it is equally wrong in my mind to state that you should never spend money on an amp stand because that money will always have been better spent on the amp. In building my most recent system, it was only when I had dealt with everything from the power lead into the house, through each and every cable, each and every component, and each and every support or isolation device, and each and every room treatment issue, that I really felt I had eliminated all significant unmusical artefacts. It sounds to me like you have come to the same conclusions. But what this means is that the number of variables we are dealing with is very long indeed, and our opinions on individual components will be clouded by the deficiencies of our existing system. Therefore it would seem that some simplifying rules would be of considerable benefit if we are to get good results. In another post I had a wee spat on this point. I was advocating attempting to select each component with neutrality in mind rather than using components to balance colourations in other components. This is because the apparent lack of neutrality of a component is not always due to it acting like a pure filter. For example, a CD player may smear some high frequencies and therefore sound peaky in the highs, despite appearing to be ruler-flat when measured. Balancing this with a warm and soft preamp is trying to turn two wrongs make a right. I have heard some advocate getting good quality components and then use cables (as filters) to get a neutral balance. Personally I see this as being similar to the "soggy preamp with etched CD player" idea. When playing with isolation I at first thought that this was a better place to do the final voicing of the system. But I found that warming things up with different isolation devices tended to destroy pace and rhythm, and that sharpening things up with different isolation devices tended to do so by smearing higher frequencies. I am very interested in any insights on the appropriate strategy for compiling a total system, given the very large number of variables at play.