Percentage to spend on Amp and Speakers

Joe-Coherent: I found the Opus to have poor deep bass extension and a closed-in, but bright sound. When it was reviewed by the major mags, it was compared to the Eidolon and while they indicated the Eidolon was better, they did leave the feeling that the Opus delivered the same type of frequency balance and sonic character. I wanted to hear the Eidolon, but the salesman wouldn't even let me in that room since my budget for speakers couldn't even be pretended to stretch to that sum. I would choose many speakers over the Opus, whether they have first-order crossovers or not, at much cheaper prices, like the Vandersteen 3A Signature, Audio Physic Virgo, Vandersteen 5. I would even choose the budget, but, IMO, sonically compromised Hales Revelation 3 over the Opus. The Vandersteen 5 is the best speaker that I have personally heard. I hesitate to place any technology, such as requirement for first order crossovers before listening, as if it is one of the most significant factors in buildiing quality speaker systems, it should be instantly sonically recognizable. If it is not one of the most significant factors and I have prejudiced myself against systems without this technology, it will be very hard for me to accept a system which sounds good without it. As far as amps go, I like the Pass Aleph series and the Plinius SA-100. I haven't listened to the current Bryston's, but I have always found them too bright for my taste, but certainly a good class B amp. I would put the Pass Labs Aleph 4 and Aleph 2 significantly ahead, and the Plinius ahead of any Bryston I have heard. I have an Aleph 4. I am interested to hear the Marsh series of amps since I have heard lots of good things and they are not expensive. Among top preamps, I have heard and liked CAT SL-1 Ultimate, CAT SL-1 Signature, Audible Illusiions Modulus 3A, Ayre K-1 and K-3. I would listen to some of these before giving up on preamps. Also, you might want to check out the Hovland HP-100 and Aesthetix Callisto which supposedly compete in the ultimate preamp category. In the right systems, these can really sing. I have a CAT Ultimate and have compared it vs. going directly from my 12 year old Philips CD-80 into the Aleph 4. I definitely prefer the CAT in the system vs. going direct. Without the CAT, the system is "jumpy" and not refined. With the CAT, it is smooth and musical, dynamic with broad and deep soundstage. I think amps and preamps like these, while expensive, will significantly enhance many sound systems, working well with many speaker systems which can match with solid state electronics. I would feel comfortable mating this system with Vandersteen 5, Vandersteen 3A Signature or Gershman Acoustics RX-20 Avant Garde, for example, as the final piece of this system.

I agree with many of your speaker choices, including the Vandersteens 5 which are wonderful, although somewhat complicated to set-up (too many options). The Eidolon is ina ompletely different league than the Opus, the latter being in my view somewhat overpriced. You could probably argue the same of the Eidolon which is definitily not twice as good as the Vandersteen 5 or better than a SoundLab electrostat ! You pay for the finish and the smart sales tactics. On amps, I agree the Bryston 4B (never the 7B) may sound a little bit bright in some systems, but not so in all, and much less so once it has broken-in. The Plinius are great amps but in my opinion somewhat overhyped, I would still agree to add them to my solid state list. The Marsh is unbelievably good and my personal favorite, although it doesn't look very good. It gets you near enough to heaven. Thanks for your other recommendations.

We may not be talking $10,000 speakers, but Mike said he was going to spend $2,000. This will get you a pretty swell pair of speakers on the used market, especially if you shop patiently -- Theils, Martin Logan hybrids (or esl's), various Maggies, Vanderstein 2CE's, Dunlavy SC-IV's, Soundlabs, etc. All of these speakers will sound better with higher quality amplification. Here's the way I look at it... spend more on speakers now with lower quality amplification/source and when you upgrade speakers you'll find that amp/preamp/source combination to be even more lacking. Better speakers are more revealing of what is upstream. Guess what, now you're upgrading speakers and amp. The best upstream components you can afford will get the maximum potential of the speakers you buy now and also work better with future speaker upgrades. I prefer to buy components that I can upgrade around for a long time. For me, it's easier to simply replace speakers only. If, for some reason, there a "mismatch" down the road (highly unlikely with better quality electronics) you now have higher quality components that can be sold/traded for the comparable high quality piece that you want. The "crack pipe" remark was figurative. Sorry to offend anyone who took it literally.

Jim, when you say that the crack-pipe remark was figurative I wonder what you mean...figurative of what ? (figurative = serving as illustration) Also, I completely disagree that speakers are easier to upgrade ("For me, it's easier to simply replace speakers only"). Changing speakers frequently will likely throw your system off-balance more than changing any other component ! Now I'm wondering who's really been playing with that pipe. ;-)

Jim I think you've proven my point for me. Buying excellent speakers at the $2000 range will leave less reason for upgrading in the near future. Thereby freeing up money, allowing for upgrades in componentry later. To trade in your speakers down the road without considering doing the same for most of your other equipment seems awfully limiting to me. I recently built amy first "Hi-fi" system around one of your suggestions....The Martin Logan SL-3. I put together an excellent system(IMHO) for the same price range as Miked was looking for. After a few months of listening (and AWE factor wearing off) I realise that I have two weak links that I can upgrade as money becomes available (a dedicated CD player and I'm going to try a tube pre). I realize the value of upgrading equipment and the difference it makes , but I'm afraid I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference (and lost interest) if I had built the system the other way around. Not to mention I wouldn't have been able to afford the speakers.