You got to show me something more!

Hiwave: Bach was a jazzman, you should know that! He improvised as much or more than any classical player. It doesn't hurt to have a classical training, but it certainly is, and has never been a prerequisite to play jazz. Heck, Wes Montgomery, probably one of the greatest guitar players that ever lived, couldn't even read a lead sheet! Sure, there have been some great players that were classically trained; Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, to name but a few, but even they saw the light, and switched. Your argument is nothing does nothing more than support my position, which last time I checked, was merely a suggestion that someone not make a blanket statement about jazz without qualifying it, or in the very least, their reasons for calling it jerky. And no, jazz players are not imitating anyone. A great jazz player only channels what he/she hears. What performances have you been listening to? Ever hear an artist duplicate his/her solo? It's all about being in the moment. Once the moment has ended, it is gone. If imitation exists, it exists in the classical genre, not jazz. Anyone can train themselves to play a piece of sheet music. But can that same person improvise?

Dekay: No offense man. I didn't infer anything. You presumed what I said was an inference. I merely suggested that someone qualify their statements if they're going to make a blanket statement. BTW...I never weedle.

Garfish: I would be the last one to tell anyone what they should be listening to. To the contrary, the point is that folks should be listening to everything. I do. If the "jerky" comment hadn't been made, I'd not have been compelled to begin this thread. But it was made, and I began the thread to enlighten anyone who is willing to listen, that truth be told, jazz is the most technically challenging music. You may not understand it, but that's for them to discover. No one suggested what someone should be listening to...except you. :)

Doug: I've been an Audiogon member since week one. I didn't need to read 3000 comments to begin a thread suggesting that perhaps folks should investigate before closing their minds. Personally, I appreciate all forms of music. But, it's obvious yes, I dig jazz. You yourself suggest that this forum is all about enjoying all types of music. So, having said that, why would read more into my initiation of this thread other than to enlighten an obviously unacquainted person about jazz? Or, have I misinterpreted your post as you've undoubtedly misinterpreted mine?

Sugarbrie: There can be no true documentary about the history of jazz, without the mention of slavery, bigotry, prejudice. Don't let that turn you off man. You just might learn something!

Frogman: Nice to see someone actually gets it! Many don't!

Enjoy all! coltrane1

"The best jazz musicians I ever met all had classical training and there is no question that classical music IS the most technically challenging. Show me any jazz musician who can compose or play counterpoint like Bach. Jazz musicians are imitators, of each other and of the classical genre. Seems like you have yet to complete your course on music appreciation."

This is the sort of dogma, or belief that many a classical pianist espouses to. That, if one practices, and commits enough material to memory (into their fingers), that some day they might indeed become a great musician. Hogwash. Any decent jazz player will play circles around even a classical player trained in the Chopin school of playing. Man, it ain't about playin' something someone wrote 300 years ago. It's about playing what's in your heart, in your being. As beautiful as Classical is, it has no soul, no blues, and won't get your foot moving. As the Duke said, "It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing!"

I kid you not. If any of those cats from 3-400 years ago had the chance to jam with Charlie Parker, they would have jumped at the chance! Just as Parker loved, and studied some classics towards the end of his career. Man, if you're going to tell it, tell it right!

I dig classical too, but it ain't jazz. And jazz lives like no other.

BTW...whomever suggested I'm a newbie just because I'm not a regular here, heck man, I've probably sold more gear on this site over the past 3.5 years of its existence the the lot of you put together. Okay...I'm a newbie on the threads. I've merely tried to enlighten you fine folk. You can lead a horse to water but...I'll leave you fine folk to your forum of exclusivity. Enjoy!
Coltrane1

"Mama let that boy play some rock and roll, jazz is much too crazy, he can play it when he's old..." Doucet from "The Deuce is Loose"

I wish we had a lot more about the individuals and what influenced them musically. If you have seen Ken Burns' other documentaries, a lot the civil rights stuggle information is a re-hash of the same material over and over again. The history of the USA is the history of civil rights all the way back to the Pilgrims who where escaping religious discrimination. Just for a point of reference, my financee' is of a different race and she finds the civil rights coverage a little too much also.

Coltrane: Actually yes, you did make a blatent attemp at dweedling. So now we have established that you are capable of self denial and that I am capable of being a big prick. I also assume that we are both here because of our interest in music and perhaps gear (I do not know where you stand on this, I am interested in both). Let's keep it clean without the cheap shots from now on. I am currently into "Bella Ciao" but I am not going to force it down anyone's throat:-)