Are you Guys Rich or What!?

...the price of the system grows from the time you've started such hobby(~$2000 "downpayment")not as fast as it seems and you do not have to be Wall-Street-like guy in audio.
The funny thing is that when you upgrade your setup every year or two, audio seems like car-loan payments and within a certain period of time its price can grow upto the cost of luxury car or more even if you're relatively low-income audio freak like I am.
I do sacrifice on car expances and buy only used and old lo-tek US made cars.

As p1s1, we too are music junkies. Also, on the long path to riches which we will have crossed by the yr. 2099. A large prtion of our money goes to music, live & s/w and the equip to listen to what we cannot hear live (Heifetz? Oistrakh? Gieseking, etc, etc).

I dare say, we're happy with what we have -- rather than coveting what we don't have.

It doesn't make us rich (but you just wait!) >)

Cheers!

I agree with Kthomas -- my system is very nice and I spent less than many people spend on a car (Sierra Denali amps, Montana KAS, MIT Oracle V2, Sierra pream, Perpetual Technologies with Wright mods, California Audio). I tell my wife that a mid-life crisis spend on audio gear will get me in a lot less trouble than spending the same money on a hot car (frankly, I'm not at all convinced that the hot car would do much better, but it makes a good story);-)

As others indicate, you can get a fine system for well under $10,000. For example, I owned a couple of Bryston 7B-ST's, the Bryston preamp and Thiel CS-6's that I'm in the process of selling to my neighbor at blue book (around $8,500 with lots of cables etc. thrown in) -- that is a very nice system! I wouldn't have parted with it unless I ran into some great deals on something far better (and more expensive). You can find great deals on Audiogon! The new systems at full price are for folks who have the money and want the help. If you know what you are doing (or are a good researcher), you can latch on to great deals.

Do some searches on Audiogon and I'm sure you'll come up with a fantastic system for not too much money. Over time, you keep upgrading and spending more, but it's a lot easier on the cash flow than doing it all at once. I'm not rich but do OK -- I guess if I made less money, I'd drive a used car and look for deals on Audiogon and elsewhere. Good luck.

I must have missed this thread, dunno how that was possible??? Well I read it all and there are a lot of good points made, I agree that most serious audiophiles will upgrade to the major's if/when they have the money to do it. I started with a system worth about 7k and now(less then 2 years) it is closer to 40k and climbing rapidly. I find a lot of improvement with my upgrades and I realize one day there will be a point when I can no longer upgrade. The only way I can justify it to myself is thinking of boats, people blow loads of money on boats and use them 6 times a year, well I spend similiar money on my stereo which I can use any day all day if I want. I don't have a wife/girlfriend to contend with so it is not a factor.....yet. Another thing I did was when I got rid of my car(cadillac=high payments) I got a cheaper car(VW=low payments) and now I now have corporate funding for my audio habit, via a monthly payment, life is grand.

My formula (and I think the formula for others in these challenging economic times) is one word: value. That means paying 33% to 50% of retail for most everything, unless the piece has a very high value already and is difficult to obtain discounted. This high value category could include the above-cited Newform Research speakers and other high end stuff that's sold only direct (i.e not with three levels of markup) Brian's Whale power cords are a good expample of this, as they represent a high value to cost ratio, when compared with other cords costing triple or more.

Another example of value: I recently stole a Placette active line stage pre for 1/2 of the factory direct price through an Audiogon auction. To me, paying 50% for the Placette was akin to buying Krell or Levinson for 25% of list, as Placette spends 50% of its costs on materials alone. It's that value equation again.

Cables are another kettle of fish. Some are so hopelessly overpriced that I try for 20% of retail, or even less. This doesn't mean that these (NBS,etc.)cables aren't worth every penny, just that you should never pay retail, because, if you hang out here it's easy to save at least 60%. And if you want to try an exotically priced cable that doesn't have the resale value of Cardas or Nordost, be preapered to take a bath if you have to resell.

But what about high-buck cables that are also high value and have a widely-accepted cache associated with their name? I'm thinking here of Nordoes and Cardas.

Would I pay retail to "Valhalasize" my systems with Nordost's best if I could (a) afford to (b) thought they made a big diffence. Yes. After hearing them this weekend, they DO make a differnce, as much IMHO as a significant component upgrade. Therefore to me, these $3,300 interconnects and $6K+ speaker cables do have "value", despite their make-you-choke lsit price. The icing on the cake is that Nordost's good name will keep the resale value high, further helping me justify the purchase if I can afford to do so.

Speaking of affordability, at the Toronto show this weekend I had a chance to listen to some highly synergistic systems that far exceeded what I can afford. Value at full retail? ...I'm not so sure. But if I could stomach the payments, and I got a bit of discount, and the dealers weren't so damm snobby ... and we were in better economic times, and we had world peace ...well, you get the idea. So let's add one more variable to the value equation: synergy.

I realize I'm wandering a bit here, but let me tell you about the two stand-out rooms in Toronto:(Other rooms had $100K+ systems that sounded much WORSE than my humble Kefs and this includes the room featuring the stunning new B&W 800 with the Signature finish.)

The first standout room was set up by Inner Ear magazine, a Canadain rag that I have new-found respect for after talking at length to two of its writers. Gersham Opera Savages powered by a $22,000 15 Watt pair of Tenor monoblocks. (Sorry, I can't remember the preamp.) Nordost's Valhallas on everything and a giant Tice power conditioner took care of getting the signal to where it should be without any coloration. Redbook as good as my SACD was had through the AA Capitole, which by the way, was used in 5+ rooms at the show. Even garden variety CDs sounded rich and room filling with absolutely no fatique. I listened for over an hour, paying more attention to the artist rather than trying to nit-pick the system. True synergy for under $100K. And I even had a heart-to-heart with Eli Gershman, the Opera's designer. When he knew I was serious about these speakers, Eli went to great lengths to distinguish this flagship Opera Savage from my other lust for life, the Gershman Gap. Hint: the Opera goes a little lower, but more importantly has wider dispersion, whereas with the Gaps, you need to sit "right here". My only knock against the Opera Savage is that are, to put it diplomatically, odd looking and quite frankly a bit ugly, especailly after being seduced by the B&W 800's. If I bought the Savages, my wife would say my hobby "belongs in the basement", whereas the B&Ws would surely be worthy of the living room.

Across the hall (which kind'a made an intersting A/B comparison possible) was a pair of Nearfield Acoustics Pipedreams. These damm things, which looked like 10 bookself speakers glued end-to-end, almost touched the ceiling and intimidated all of all the audiophile sardines packed into the miniscule 12'x15' hotel room. The P'Dreams reminded me of those 30-foot triple-stretched limos: grotesque and surely excessive. And they weren't even accurate (when comapred to the Opera Savage). So why am I in love? Powered by the Tenor $29K 75 Watt tube monos, the Pipedreams quite simply replace a live soundstage. What these towers can do so much better than lesser, mere mortal speakers, is produce a live, life-size perfomance ambience that lets you visualize the band members in size-as 3D. Instruments had height as well as being right "there", every instrument was raised off the floor, as on a real stage, with the drum kit still higher, on a drummer's platform. Depth exceeded the walls of room. A glance over to the component wall also revealed the Audio Aero Capitole providing the source signal. I was in such a state of pipedreamed lull, that I forgot to note the preamp and cabling (sorry!)

So put away the instruments that measure accuracy, extension and whatever else the rags technically harp over, the Pipedreams are not about that; they simply bring the performers into you room and let you reach out and touch them. And no instrument can measure that. Getting back around to the subject head of "value", would I pay the $100K+ asking price for this system? In a heartbeat. And it's a much better value than that &#@%! Nortel stock in my portfolio that was supposed to let me realize my own pipedream.

I'll do a more comprehensive show report after it finishes today. --Lorne