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PrimaLuna Dialog 2 User Review

There are not many user reviews for the PrimaLuna Dialog 2 integrated amplifier online so I offer this perspective for those that may be considering this integrated.

First Things First.

My equipment:

- B&W CM9 Full range speakers
- NAD T775 receiver (doing duty as the DAC)
- Samsung BluRay player (nothing special, HDMI output)
- LogiTech Squeezebox (coax output)
- Dialog 2 (Of course)

My taste in music:

Rock and alternative, heavy is preferred. My playlists include the likes of Volbeat, Halestorm, GreenDay, LinkinPark, Offspring, DragonForce, Coheed and Cambria.

What I do not listen to: Classical, Jazz, Easy listening, country.

Source Music Quality:

CD, DVD Audio (Rush-Moving Pictures), MP4A, AIFF, 24/92 from HDTracks.

* I was new to tubes with this amplifier.

Unpacking it:

The first thing you will notice about the Dialog 2 is that it is bloody heavy, it does weigh every bit of that 70+ pound shipping weight. It comes double boxed. Upon opening you will find the "white gloves" at the top layer for tube wrangling later on.

The dialog 2 is built like a tank (see my comment about its weight). PrimaLuna encourages you to open it up and take a look at the workmanship internally, I did, it is very tidy in there.

The remote is built from machined aluminum, it is hefty and in a pinch could be used for home defense. Opening up the remote (as you will have to do to change batteries) reveals cheap Chinese internals, my first remote arrived with the buttons running around inside the remote. The remote has rubber O-rings around each end to save your furniture from being damaged, expect to visit the hardware store yearly to replace these as they degrade quickly, especially if left in a sunny spot.

The Amplifier comes with the tubes (PrimaLuna branded KT-88) installed and all you have to do to get it going is remove the sleeves surrounding the tubes, wrangle the protectors off the single ended RCA style connector for the source of your choice (they are on there tight!), add power and speakers and you are in business.

Operation:

The amplifier is simple enough to use, turn it on, wait for the tubes to warm up and you'll be listening to music in 15-30 seconds. During the warm up period none of the functions work, so you can't select your source until the amplifier is ready to go.

The amplifier offers a Home Theater pass through source selection, this source by-passes the pre-amplifier section (12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes) and feeds straight to the power amplifier section. My thoughts on this feature; as you have to physically turn the amplifier on you will be up there waiting for the amplifier to warm up and listening to the wife complain because it doesn't respond to a remote control. Sure the HT pass through helps it fit in with the home theater but it still needs special attention, some thing the wife will let you hear about.

The sound:

This was my first foray into tube amplifiers, I was left dazed and confused!

From the beginning the Dialog presented very clear and focused vocals and well controlled bass, I kept waiting for the "full midrange" that tubes are said to have to kick in as the tubes burned in, I never found the full sound I was looking for.

I found the high frequencies to be sharp and hash, several songs I listened to, Coheed and Cambria's "welcome home" for example were so harsh I was sent running for the remote to turn down the volume.

Another sensation I experienced with this amplifier was no matter what the volume was set at, I always felt like if I just turned the volume up a little more I might find the sound I was looking for, I never did. In most cases after thirty minutes of listening I felt fatigued and would walk away from it.

I did try EL-34 tubes in it, the EL-34's seemed to move the frequency response up a little bit, I still had harsh high frequencys, the bass response was tight but reduced a little and the mid range seemed to respond a little more but not what I was looking for. Changing out the 12AX7 pre-amp tube did not make a significant difference either.

I did use the Demo download from HDTracks that has a couple of classical tracks included, the amplifier did well with these.

Customer Support:

A quick email to the PrimaLuna-USA website may or may not yield a response. If you complain in the right places you will probably end up talking to either or both of the two main people in the company, Herman in Holland and Kevin in the USA, what other company, hi-fi or otherwise can you say that about?

My dealer was as helpful as they could be but they had no one knowledgeable in tubes, trying to make a decision about which tubes would meet my musical tastes was frustrating to say the least.

Summary:

To be fair, I am not the audiophiles audiophile, both my equipment and music/quality tastes and choices probably did not showcase this amplifier in its best light.

The Dialog 2 is very well built and with care should last a lifetime, although I have my doubts about the longevity of the remotes internals. From my limited experiences the PrimaLuna KT-88 tubes seem to be of similar quality to most of the new manufacture tubes available on the market. One of my KT-88's burned out at about eight months, they are warranted for six months ...

For a heavy rock and roller with average source material I found the sound to be harsh and fatiguing and generally lacking in the fullness (low-mid range?), what it lacked in "fullness" it offset with razor sharp vocals (I don't know what range contributes to this but it was there). The bass is very tight and controlled. I imagine that this amplifier is much better suited to Jazz and Classical.

The home theater pass through lets you use the Dialog 2 as part of a home theater, I found this function to be of limited value as I always had to travel physically to the amplifier to turn it off and on.

If you are a newby to tubes definately take a demo model home before you commit, if the sound is not what you are looking for you will be on your own "tube rolling" to get that sound unless of course your dealer has some very experienced people on staff. Tube rolling my be fun when you are feeling experimental, when you are looking for a certain sound, the lack of information on the sound qualities of various tubes make it just expensive and frustrating.

So how did I finally get the sound I was looking for? My dealer let me trade the Dialog 2 for a SimAudio product and I've never been happier.
aussiejetpilot
rlwainwright
1,904 posts
 
Wow, sounds like you definitely did not like the sound of the PL.

Additionally, I disagree with the notion that an amp should be "voiced" for particular types of music. Ideally, an amp should have no voicing whatsoever - whatever is presented at the Input terminals should simply have gain applied and nothing else. If an amp cannot do that properly, it is a failure.

It appears, based upon your review, that this amp is a failure.

Thanks for the writeup!!

-RW-
mikirob
955 posts
 
I don't own the Primaluna Dialogue2, but the Dialogue1 for the past 6 or so months. First-off your experience is completely opposite of my experience. System synergy is a must and looking at your components I suspect it is your ancillary equipment that is a major contributor or culprit of the harsh, etched sound.

Out of the box my unit sounded ok, yet as is typical everything needed to be broken in. I knew before I bought the unit that I would roll-tubes to find the sound that I wanted. My unit came with Primaluna EL34s as well as their standard complement of 12ax7 and 12au7. As the unit was breaking in the violins, for example, were a bit much and irritating and the sound was thin without much warmth and lacked weight and body; but as the unit played on changes for the better began.

From experience I knew where I was going with respect to tubes and I started by first replacing the standard 12au7 with RCA Clear Tops which I had on hand. Nice improvement everywhere, but especially in soundstage width and depth. I kept playing and listening, and changing these tubes: NOS Sylvania, Mullard, Amperex, and so forth, each one better than the stock tubes. I also did the same with the 12ax7. And the music played on, warmth, body and weight, dynamics, lovely highs, Ella was in my room, Miles too, Louis Armstrong trumpet about perfect, rock rocked, small and large classical pieces sounded right, excellent timbre in a coherent well-defined stage. But I still knew it could get even better.

So I dropped in some SED Winged C EL34s, nice improvement again more warmth and body with no loss of detail and all the other attributes. It was coming together, rolled some more and finally settled on NOS Russian 6n3ce (6L6), Amperex Bugle Boy 12au7, Sylvania 5751 3M Black Plates.

Now, to my ears, in my system and space, the Primaluna has proved to be a versatile integrated that makes wonderful music in my office system set-up. It really loses nothing in comparison to my main system (Cary v12 and SLP98). A little different presentation, but it keeps up with the big boy and plays music as it should with all the Audiophile and music lover attributes. I have also compared the Primaluna against my Cary CAD 300sei, new Almarro 205 and my brother Leben 600 integrated. You may prefer one over the other, but the Primaluna is a stellar performer, and yes, I just love their adapive auto bias.
mikirob
955 posts
 
By the way, I recently put the Primaluna EL34s back in for a couple of days of listening and guess what, they sound quite good now. Not as good as some of my other tube rolls or my 6n3ce, but sweet, not a hint of harshness, no fatigue, so don't forget the driver and input tubes, they can make a significant difference.
singleendedsingle
664 posts
 
Wow, this is opposed from what i know. Sad you didn't find the "Right" tubes.
mechans
3,048 posts
 
@ Mikirob you may want to try the 12AU7 direct sub made by Amperex Heerlen called the 7316. It is my favorite 12AU7 by a longshot.
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