Tannoy Westminster amp matching question.

Phew !!! For a minuet there I thought It was all getting grumpy and out of hand ;-).

Atma, I appreciate you'r physics based approach to your explanations. Seems to make sense to me.

Charles, I like you're open and philosophical approach to the classification of what will work or not. I think I'm in the same camp as you re trying SET's with these. Probably if there are limitations, the subjective benefits I'd get in the way I listen would more than make up for the downsides.

Personally I have never found the "massive power being better" thing to be true, but there are so many variables here that it is immensely difficult to judge objectively. I'm thinking of a friends class D amps driving his B&W 802's (A horror to my ears). he really loved it, something I couldn't understand.

I am getting a number of truths from this thread:-

1. There are many different ways to get it right.
2. There are more different ways to get it wrong.
3. If we each think that our own system is fantastic then who cares what others think ?? I do like to listen with friends over a nice bottle of wine. But I wouldn't design a system change so they liked it more and me less.
(maybe there is a different consideration in the case of designers who are designing products to be attractive to appreciative customers) Actually that's a thought provoking point...... Atmas do you design to what you think sounds great, or is it a case of trying to please some of the people, most of the time ?? I expect in this industry(at this end of the industry) that its driven by passionate artisans who are designing towards their ultimate personal taste. I think that's the only way that you get truly phenomenal products. i.e. someone pushing passionately, for what they believe is the ultimate way to go.

4. The only way to really tell is to experience for yourself in your own room with your own music. Unfortunately this is not always possible so gathering opinions from experienced enthusiasts like yourselves can help avoid making really bad mistakes.

Thanks all.

Charles1dad -
Again you still make false assumptions when you assert that "high powered solid state" may suit someones preferences. The underlying assumption you imply is that high powered solid state has a sound - well that's not true, its going to be speaker dependent. Isn't the primary goal of an amplifier to drive the speaker properly.
My point was that you need an amp that is driving the speakers properly and with over 20 years experience with Tannoy 15" drivers in various cabinets, I do believe that many folk incorrectly assume that you only need a few watts because of the high efficiency. I believe that controlling the 15" driver, which has been specifically designed to be phase coherent through the crossover point at 1k, is paramount to maintaining that design intent.
I personally do not use high powered solid state. I use a very high current phase coherent 50wpc solid state amp, regarded by many as one of the best solid state amps ever made. I still own tube amps as well, some of which blow the Plinius away completely through the midrange in transparency, liquidity and preservation of harmonics, but are they the best amps for Tannoy - not necessarily.
Let me give you an example. A friend of mine has the Coincident Pure Reference speakers which are 94db. He uses most of the time a Bakoon amplifier of 15 watts. This drives the Coincidents in a large room easily. On my Tannoys of similar efficiency the Bakoon sounds very transparent, but runs out of power very quickly, even at low listening levels. As I explained above the efficiency is only half the story and can be misleading.

Atmas do you design to what you think sounds great, or is it a case of trying to please some of the people, most of the time ?? I expect in this industry(at this end of the industry) that its driven by passionate artisans who are designing towards their ultimate personal taste.

I'm looking to improve the performance of the circuit all the time. Until you asked this question, it never occurred to me to try to go for a sound that someone else likes. First off I don't have any idea how I would get into their head to really know what that was :)

So I just try to get as much performance as I can, doing it according to the design principles that have guided me now for several decades. To that end: eliminate sources of distortion (some examples of distortion sources are transistors, pentodes and transformers), particularly the kinds of distortion that the human ear finds objectionable. I don't care so much about what distortion if the ear does *not* care, so I do place a value on listening!

I go for simple circuits; a lot of people are surprised to learn that our OTLs have a simpler signal path than even SETs have (only one stage of gain).

I agree to a certain degree with Charles1dad in that what works for you is fine- that is what works for you. But to that I add that that is in your experience, and what I have found is that no-one has experienced everything. There is always room for improvement. So really its more a matter of if its 'good enough'.

One thing that I find interesting is that we audiophiles use much the same language to describe sound ('soundstage', 'relaxed', 'dynamics', etc.) but this language fails to convey the intensity of the experience. So as a result on the Internet two audiophiles can use the exact same expression although one is describing a $600 transistor amp and the other a $50,000 tube amp. Their experience is worlds apart but the language makes it sound like its exactly the same.

So we still have to audition stuff- no way around it.

Have a good holiday!

Borg,
Nothing at all to get grumpy over.It`s a bit amusing when someone suggests I try PP amps when I used those(several) for 15 years prior to SET awareness just over 3 years ago.Borg I like your list of truths.
Regards,

Atamasphere,
I can`t argue with your "so really its more a matter of it`s good enough". Yes that`s true I have`nt experienced 'everything' nor have you or anyone else, it is`nt possible to do . So we`re all left with our individual experiences to guide our decisions(what other option is there?).

It`s easy for me to decide in this sense,I just trust my ears and my gut reaction(emotional response).If I hear something I like better than SET amps I`d change in a heartbeat.It has`nt happened yet(does`nt mean it won`t).All that matters is what sounds best to me (us) and draws me into the music.What OTL does for you,SET does for me.
Regards,