Current Trends in multi thousand dollar speakers


Have any of you been paying attention to the current trends in larger multi-woofer speakers that cost multiple thousands of dollars? So that many of you can follow along, i'll use the Legacy Focus 20/20's at $6K, the Piega C8's at $15K and the Aerial 20T's at $23K as points of reference. All of these have been reviewed in Stereophile over the last few months. If you're not familiar with these, all of them are vertical dynamic designs using multiple woofers in vented cabinets.

If you look at the response of of these speakers, they all have very pronounced bass peaks with elevated low frequency plateau's taking place. Of these three, the Legacy's are by far the worst of the bunch. Not only do they diverge from neutrality the most ( +7 dB peak @ 100 Hz ), their elevated bass output or "low frequency plateau" levels out at 40 Hz and at 400 Hz. That is over 3+ octaves of "extra" output that wasn't on the recording. Above 400 Hz, the output levels off with very noticeable rippling slightly above that point in the midrange and multiple large peaks with a dip up in the treble response. Below 40 Hz, the output drops like a rock. The reason that the plateau levels out at 40 Hz is because of the associated sharp roll-off associated with vents below their point of resonance.

To sum things up, this speaker, which Paul Bolin raved about in Stereophile, is anything but "smooth" or "linear" in reproduction. As can be seen in the graphs, there is a very definite "boom & sizzle" type of response taking place here. As a side note, i found that the Legacy Signature III's showed a similar large bass peak centered at appr 100 - 110 Hz, so this would seem to be a consistent design attribute / "house sound" / "family voice" to Legacy speakers.

Moving onto the Piega's, their overall response looks to be measurably smoother than the Legacy's from the midrange on up. As far as bass goes, the Piega's peak occurs at an amplitude of +5 dB's and is centered at appr 85 Hz. Their "bass plateau" is quite wide, actually just as wide as that of the Legacy. Both show the same appr "elevated output" aka "bloat" from about 40 Hz to 400 Hz. Much like the Legacy's, the Piega shows the typical sharp roll-off below 40 Hz due to the output of the vent being out of phase with that of the undamped woofer. Even though both speakers show very similar plateau's and a similar F3 ( -3 dB point ), the Legacy's bass plateau has both a higher peak and a higher average.

Moving up to the $23K price range, we've got the Aerial 20T's. Similar to the Piega's, the Aerial's are reasonably smooth in response from the mids on up with a few low amplitude peaks and dips. Side by side comparisons though, it would appear that the Piega's are a little "flatter".

When it comes to low frequency performance, the Aerial's produced a +5 db peak centered at appr 60 Hz. Of the three speakers mentioned here, the amplitude of the peak is the same of the Piega's ( +5 dB's ), which is much lower ( 66% reduction ) than that of the +7 dB peak of the Legacy's. Even with this 66% reduction of the peak amplitude at resonance compared to the Legacy's, we are still talking about a divurgence of +5 dB's here!!!

As far as the "bass plateau" goes with the 20T's, this speaker is much more linear than either of the above. While the Aerial's also level out at appr 40 Hz and drop like a rock below that point, the upper end of the bass region is MUCH smoother. Whereas the others were contributing added output up to appr 400 Hz, the Aerial's are leveling out at appr 120 Hz or so. In effect, the Aerial's appear to offer the most controlled bass with the least amount of bass colouration. Then again, they are by far the most expensive also.


As far as low frequency extension is concerned, the Aerial's resonance peak is centered the lowest of the three i.e. 60 Hz for the Aerial's vs 85 Hz for the Piega's and 100 Hz for the Legacy. Even though the Aerial's have a resonance that is 25 Hz below that of the Piega's and 40% lower in frequency than the Legacy's, all of their -3 dB points are within a very few Hz of each other. While the graph's aren't completely legible, it appears that the F3 ( -3 dB point ) for all of these speakers are right about 34 - 38 Hz or so. How do such different designs achieve similar F3's? It has to do with the tuning of the vents and the amplitude of the peaks at resonance.

By creating a huge peak at resonance, it takes longer for the amplitude of the signal to fall off. As such, the Legacy's much larger peak at resonance allows it to achieve appr the same F3 on paper that the other designs worked harder to achieve. As such, were the Legacy's designed this way because they like the sound of massive bloat? Were they designed this way so that they could claim a lower F3? Could it be a combo of the two? We'll probably never know.

What does all of this add up to? Judged in comparison to each other and strictly talking about bass linearity, the Aerial looks the best on paper by far. Why just on paper? Because we have to factor in the added gain associated with in-room response. Our ears hear the entire presentation i.e. the speaker and how the speaker loads up / pressurizes & excites the room. As such, what looks the best on paper may not be what you like the most in your room. If you're room is properly set-up, the results on paper and the results in the room should pretty well jive. That is, at least as far as frequency response & linearity go. There are a LOT of other factors going on here though, not to mention personal preference.

What happens if the room isn't properly set up? Compared to anechoic responses, all speakers will have greater output / added extension when placed in an average listening room. While specific speaker placement comes into play in terms of the extension and amount of boost, most rooms will produce maximum ouput somewhere in the 50 - 80 Hz range. Obviously, this varies with the size and shape of the room.

The net effect is that these speakers are going to produce even MORE bass than what they already show in these graphs. Not only are we picking up low frequency output from what is called "room gain" ( "cabin gain" in a vehicle ) by pressurizing the room, we are also going to be exciting the resonances of the room too. All of this adds up to GOBS more "apparent bass". Add in the fact that this bass lacks speed and control* and you've got "bloated, ill-defined thump" running rampant.

Other than that, one has to wonder just how extended the bass response of these designs would be if they didn't have such HUGE peaks? After all, the higher the peak at resonance, the lower the -3 dB point of the speaker appears to be. Do we have to add "bloat" to get extension? How do you get around all of this and still keep good sound? That's easy but it is a completely different subject : )

What i want to know is, what do you folks think about this type of performance at these price levels? Is there anything that we can learn from this? Do we see a specific trend taking place here and in other parts of the audio market? Inquiring minds want to know : ) Sean
>

* vented designs all suffer from a lack of transient response, increased ringing, over-shoot and phase problems. In this respect, a well designed port is typically "more linear" than a passive radiator.
sean
Isn't it utopia (no pun) to expect full-range response from a commercial passive, dynamic speaker??

Ultimately, CAN there be such a thing as a passive, dynamic, FULL-range speaker within physical & electrical & COMMERCIAL reason???
Let's look at rule of the thumb parametres of a "good" speaker -- as we've discussed it 'till now.

Take good sealed box with a Fs say of 60 Hz (not bad!). Say we equalise it (we're making happy assumptions here, and considering an anechoic room) to reach 30Hz (i.e., we need to equalise ~12db/octave). Already, that one octave will require an extra 16x as many W to reach the same spl as the 60 (as in W=P^2/rho).
Now, the original 60 was quite impressive anyway, and probably required some equalisation in the first place (say, baffle step, etc) so there is some extra energy used there too. Say a 6db/octave loss from 120Hz -- so we need 4x the watts from 120 to 60.

In other words, for 1W at 120Hz, we'll use ~65W for our 30Hz. Looks OK? Think about 2W at 120 requiring ~130W for the 30Hz. And so on...

The results in W availability look staggering. Hardly atractive in a commercial product...

Or are my numbers wrong (which they could be:))?. Or does in-room compensation save the day -- by how much??? +2-3db?? Still, that doesn't save us from having to opt for Sean's kWatt amplification -- and Sean's only using that for his BASS drivers... other amps(s) drive the rest of the speaker...

No wonder some people in the past used Onken for the low bass... No wonder, bi-amping is in the air!
The "thickening" in response when one tries to get more bass warmth by taking advantage of walls' reinforcement is more due to the automatic "revoicing" of the upper-bass/low-mids region due to the change from in frequency of the 2pi/4pi transition. MOST speakers sound muddy and congested when wall/floor mounted if they're designed to work in free space. It's interesting to note that the JM Labs and PSB surrounds seem to be their normal 2 way monitors stuffed into a different cabinet, without modification of the crossover, and hence these speakers sounded quite wrong when wall-mounted, yet very nice on stands. OTOH the Boston VR-MX surrounds, for example, sound very well balanced when wall-mounted, being voiced that way. Indeed some speakers do require some front wall support for proper bass response, but there's a pont where the boundary support frequency "lift" band goes up as the distance goes down, until when wall-mounted, the speaker usually sounds congested in the lower mids.
Sean, great post, but again, if a properly designed vented cabinet uses a nice low Fs, and the driver's happily within its excursion limits, what's wrong with a 24/dB drop below, let's say 30-40Hz? Of course "sealed" is easier to get right, but the total bass power response always requires a bigger cabinet.
Ernie, I'm piping in here:
what's wrong with a 24/dB drop below, let's say 30-40Hz (...) if a properly designed vented cabinet uses a nice low Fs, and the driver's happily within its excursion limits

It doesn't sound impossible -- BUT:
Problem seems, it's not very easy to do and COSTLY. The cabinet would be very large (and/) OR, the "clarity" of the bass reproduction, as in how many bass "notes" actually come across, could (still) suffer...
More to the point the COST of the appropriate driver(s) could easily skyrocket the retail price of the speaker. Example: an average Lambda woofer (they have good /reasonably priced woofers) costs $~280ea; say the manufacturer buys these at $150/pair --

So? We've just added $1500 to the retail price of the speaker for an improvement which, while laudable for US here, is UNlikely to:
a) move opinion-"leaders" (i.e. reviewers)
b) be appreciated & impress many potential buyers, when the speaker is auditioned within the confines of a dealer's (or the buyer's) average listening room and the response anomalies most rooms produce in the bass

So, it's not likely to skyrocket sales... which is what manufacturers need in the first place (I'm not saying that's a bad thing:))
Cheers!
Greg: Room gain is very difficult to calculate and will somewhat vary with size of the room and speaker placement within the room. This is why good engineers design a speaker for specific placement within a room. Bare in mind that i'm not just talking about bass loading characteristics either. That way, they can factor in specific low frequency reinforcement factors AND dispersion characeristics consistent with the placement that the speakers will be used in.

While many people don't take such things into consideration when making their purchases and can't figure out why their speakers don't sound good where they have them placed in their room, they may also be the same type of people that buy a 4 wheel drive SUV to drive around in the city and / or take long trips on the highway with. While one can argue "vehicles are a matter of personal preference", one can also say "mis-application of a product outside of its' intended use will deliver less than optimum results". One can use such a product and be happy with it, but that doesn't mean that something else that was more suitable for the task at hand wouldn't have worked even better.

This is why i've stressed factoring in room size and placement in varous threads. Great speakers in the wrong room and / or great speakers that are improperly placed soon become "bad speakers" that they can't get rid of fast enough. Too many folks end up buying speakers that were designed to operate in a different environment than how they want to use them and then end up paying the price.

Ernie: I would suggest that you read Vance Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook. Your understanding of cabinet size and bass extension / output needs some help. I don't mean this to sound rude, as i was under many of the same false assumptions when i first started reading / learning about speaker design myself*. The fact that there are loudspeaker designers / manufacturers that don't fully understand many of the variables involved speaks of how complex of an issue this really is.

Part of the extension / total output / lower F3 on a vented system comes from the fact that, with such a high amplitude peak at resonance, the output, which is frequency related, has to fall off quite a bit before going below the average output level.

For sake of an example, let's assume we have a speaker that averages 88 dB's across the band. Due to the undamped oscillation at resonance of the driver / vent combo, there is a +5 dB peak in the low frequency region. As we've seen, this high of a figure on a vented design is not unrealistic and is possibly even conservative on some designs. This means that at the point of resonance, the output of the speaker is at 93 dB's. It is only after the lowest tuning frequency of the vent occurs that the speaker begins to roll off. That means that roll-off starts AT the peak.

Starting off with such a high peak means that we now have to lose 5 dB's of output just to get back to the reference output level of 88 dB's. In order to find our actual F3 ( -3dB point ) of this design, we've still got to lose yet another 3 dB's of output. This would give us a total of an -8 dB drop before we actually made it to the frequency where F3 is measured.

As you can see, since roll-off occurs at the same rate that frequency is lowered, building in a bigger peak at resonance automatically gives you more extension. That is, as it looks on paper using a -3dB reference point. Other than that, one can introduce such a peak into a sealed system with an EQ and still enjoy the better transient response of the sealed box. If you want to mention the phase shifts that the EQ brings with it as being detrimental, i'd like to mention the phase shifts that the vent brings with it.

As to your question about "what's wrong with a 24 dB slope", that answer has to do with linearity, transient response and ringing. The sharper the slope, the poorer the transient response, the more ringing and the less phase accuracy. This is why most "high end" audio gear strives for wider bandwidth with gradual roll-off. Better out of band performance equates to better & faster in-band performance. Same goes for speakers.

The question here is does one want more total output with a lower F3 at the expense of added bass bloat aka "lack of control", reduced linearity, poorer transient response, etc.. or is a slightly higher F3 with improved transient response and linearity more desirable? Since F3 only tells a small percentage of the picture, take a look at this. For sake of clarity, these figures are based on the accepted principles that vented systems fall at a rate of 24 dB's an octave and sealed designs fall at a rate of 12 dB's an octave:

-3 dB's on a 40 Hz vented system
-12 dB's at 30 Hz
-24 dB's at 20 Hz.

-3 dB's on a 50 Hz sealed system
-12 dB's at 25 Hz
-24 dB's at 12.5 Hz

While the initial -3 dB point on the vented design looks better on a spec sheet, it actually offers LESS extension when all is said and done. This is true even though the sealed design looks "weak" at an honest 50 Hz rating. On top of that, the vented design has all of the other problems i.e. reduced transient response, increased ringing, more phase errors, out of phase leakage from the port into the upper bass / lower midrange region, etc... You have to deal with all of these sonic drawbacks as tis type of design tries to get you the limited extension that if does offer.

This is not to mention that the vented system is completely "unloaded" or "undamped" below 40 Hz. Any low frequency notes fed into the speaker below that point will only result in massive excursion with the potential for damage / increased distortion. If you've got vented speakers and play vinyl, DO NOT try to play massively warped records at high volume. This will cause MASSIVE "woofer flutter", possibly resulting in permanent damage.

As a side note, it is quite possible to design a bass hump / resonant peak into a sealed design. By increasing the Q, you get such a peak. Like the vent, the transient response is reduced and ringing is increased, but unlike the vent, the slope remains shallower and phase integrity is not damaged quite as badly. As such, it is possible to match the F3 of a vented design with a sealed design, but the benefits of improved transient response are partially negated.

Vented designs DO look "more impressive" on paper, but that is only because the spec's that we use to quantify the performance of speakers aren't quite as sophisticated as those that we use for electronics. On top of that, there is no such thing as electronics / room interphase like there is with speaker / room interphase.

Vents vs sealed boil down to quantity vs quality. Vents will almost always give you more total output, but at great expense. Sean
>

*To be honest, i was under the impression that vented systems allowed smaller cabinet size and greater extension for many, many years. I could never understand why someone would want to buy a bigger cabinet that didn't play as low and took more power to operate. That's because i was reading spec's but didn't know how to interpret them, nor had i actually listened to a lot of sealed designs at that point in time.

The reason why the sealed cabinets were "bigger" was because they were properly designed and tuned for extension. The vented cabinets were tuned for more apparent bass and higher output i.e. the illusion of "deeper" bass via "more" bass. This is how most "Pro" speakers are also designed and you can see further evidence of this by reading Bill Fitzmaurice's articles in Audio Xpress.
Sean...As you point out "pro" speaker systems are vented and produce lots of boomy bass. However, I notice that the majority of people on Audiogon seem to listen mostly to pop music. It is logical that their music should sound "right" to them through a boomy vented speaker.