Another UPS Horror Story

"They found no damage to the box (I have photos of the 6" hole in the bottom)"

Where did the box with the 6" hole mysteriously disappear.

UPs has an insurance division last time I checked to handle claims like this. If UPS was responsible for teh damage, then you need to talk to a mgr there and state your case clearly. That should be all that's needed as best I can tell.

Disclaimer: I worked in systems development in UPS for several years so I know a little about teh company but it has been awhile.

The best insurance is in the precautions you (or your seller) take in packaging and shipping the item being sold.

The Allnic T1500 amp has a shipping weight of 48 pounds and appears to be well constructed but fragile with respect to damage that could occur upon an impact.

Original mfgs. packaging is usually ok for lighter items but, amplifiers, monitor speakers, and expensive electronics, IMO, should always be double boxed inside of a sturdy, heavy duty cardboard, or wood, outer box with at least an inch of foam or other impact damping material (not peanuts) between the inner (mfgs.) box and the outer box. The mfgs. box should have sufficient inner packing material to keep things in their place if (when) they are jostled about but, the outer box is the one that should be designed to take a hit and, along with the one inch of foam between the boxes, to safeguard the mfgs. box in the event it is dropped.

IME, any type of floorstanding speaker that you cannot afford to have damaged should be strapped to a pallet and shipped by a trucking company.

It has long been my belief that the seller owes the buyer the purchased item in its as-described condition and that the item is the seller's responsibility until it arrives safely to the buyer. As others have pointed out, the shipping industry supports this in that the seller/shipper pays the shipping company for shipping and insurance, and claims are made by, and paid to, the seller/shipper, not the buyer/receiver. The only control the buyer/receiver has is to review the packaging upon delivery and, if badly damaged, either not accept delivery or arrange to open and inspect the item in the presence of an agent of the shipping company to look for obvious damage before accepting it. Another consideration is that (I have been told) UPS/FedEx have certain insurance limits (I think maybe $5K) above which they internally require special inspections and presumably apply extra scrutiny to the drivers to take precautions. For items valued near or above the threshold amount, paying the extra insurance may provide you with extra care by the shipping company and the driver/delivery person.

I understand that, in this case, the horse is out of the barn already, and I am sorry for your troubles, but the above practices have worked out well for me and I thought might be beneficial to the discussion.

One final thought is that the seller's attitude and response to you are unacceptable here so if, after an honest attempt to give the seller a chance to own up, I agree with others that you should file a complaint with A'gon and take whatever other avenues you have to rectify the situation.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the claim inspector in most cases will try to shift the blame to the shipper. I.e., if it had been carefully packed, e.g. Box within box, damage would not have occurred. It's a Catch 22. This supports a strategy of pick up locally only, especially if shipping all the way across country is the alternative.

My most recent experience with UPS was similarly horrendous. I sold a pair of pristine monitor speakers last summer and shipped them insured (in the original boxes, packing materials and with additional cushioning by me) to the buyer in NYC, who is about 200 miles away from me. One arrived with the tweeter damaged. The buyer notified UPS of the damage, the buyer carefully repacked the speaker, per my instructions and UPS picked up the package and sent it to their insurer. NOTE: that the insurer is a third party and not part of UPS and that a UPS store is similarly not part of UPS, rather they pay a fee to UPS to use the UPS name and the UPS shipping services.
The insurer denied the claim, saying the speaker had been improperly packaged. The damaged speaker was then returned by the insurer to the UPS store from which I had shipped it. Upon its arrival, I insisted that the store manager and I open the returned speaker package together. Upon doing so, it was obvious to the manager and I that the speaker had been mispackaged and that the manufacturers foam shipping protectors hadn't been installed as they rested at the bottom of the box under the speaker. As a result, the speaker had been bouncing around in its box and now had several chips and dimples along with the damaged tweeter. I was irate.
The store manager then began to take issue with my version of what had transpired, even going so far as to suggest that the speaker might have been damaged prior to my shipping it! Fortunately, I had taken numerous clear pictures of all speaker surfaces, their respective serial numbers as well as their drivers. The pictures were taken in two steps showing the speakers: 1. Prior to packing and 2. During the step-by-step packing process, showing my use of the factory materials and the additional packing materials. I showed the pictures to the store manager and he had no choice but to agree that what I was saying about the preshipped condition of the speakers was true. At this point, he told me that UPS claim issues are always very difficult to resolve and that they are time consuming. He volunteered to deal with UPS directly as he is prohibited from allowing direct customer contact with either the insurer or UPS personnel.
The resolution process took about 4-5 weeks and fortunately, the buyer was patient and understanding. During the claim resolution process I was required to also provide, for the insurer, additional information including: 1. the Audiogon trail of sale transaction emails and the purchase agreement with the buyer showing the price paid for the speakers, 2. documentation from the North American distributor of the speaker showing its new price and the price of its component pieces such as the drivers.
Finally, the claim was settled, but not at the value for which I insured the speaker (approximately half of their MSRP). Had I not accepted their lower-than-insured offer, they would've claimed the damaged speaker and provided me the insured value (approximately half of their MSRP). That would've left me with one speaker and about 1/2 the purchase price of a new one. Further complicating the issue is that the manufacturer will only sell the speakers as a matched pair and they won't separately sell a cabinet. The insurer was aware of this and thus made me a partial offer.
The buyer, was very gracious and agreed to accept the damaged speaker along with a new tweeter and remuneration from me for the cabinet damage.
Over this process, I learned that UPS will package your shipment at a cost of $20 per box and should there be damage that your claim will be immediately settled. Should you choose to go this route, I would be clear as to what documentation, etc. is required by them so that they will honor a damage claim.
This UPS experience was the single worst customer service experience I've ever had and I highly recommend that UPS not be used. If you have no alternative but to use them, I strongly suggest that you document everything and have a clear understanding with the UPS store of what a potential claim would entail.
Good luck with your claim.
Mike