jm lab grand utopia be--- any thoughts ?

I have heard these at shows in San Francisco and in Montreal a few years ago. At the SF show the demo was Dark Side of the Moon's "Money" track. I was not impressed. They simply did not rock, nor were they convincing. My wife looked at me and asked, "what's all the excitement about?" And how can anyone justify the cost of these when they don't even accurately convey the harmonic structure of timbre contained in the signal from any amp? I shudder to think of how the money that would go into a pair of these could instead buy a pair of Thiel CS7.2s or Vandersteen 5As some top notch electronics and sources with plenty left over for cabling and media. And all for one pair of these speakers. No way they are worth it.

I have Thiel CS6s and Vandersteen 2Ces, not top of each manufacturers' lines but darn sure more accurate than anything made by JM Labs, so, like Rgs92 above, you know where my taste in speakers lies. I really can't stand inaccurate harmonic content of timbre.

rgs 92-- i appreciate your candid comaprison between the novas and the grands. the novas do have some tendency to bloat the bass. hence the search.... :-)

stevecham-- well, what can i say-- we all have our tastes in what musical timber should sound like. i think that the new be line from jm lab is one of the better ones in capturing that elusive timber, but that's my take on them. thanks for you input ,really.

Ozy, my questions:

Can you help me understand why anyone would want to hear timbre and harmonic content that is anything but accurate as possible upon transducing the signal fed by the amplifier?

I mean, why would you want to hear only some of the harmonic content of a clarinet, for example, that is contained on the recording? Why would you not want the speaker, which we all agree is the critical motor that conveys the musical content at the final stage of music reproduction, to provide you with as much as possible by minimizing harmonic conent loss due to phase errors, intentionally imparted by the speaker designer?

Why anyone would choose a speaker that does this intentionally, by design, and that is the key issue here, is something I simply cannot fathom, unless most simply do not understand what they're missing.

I truly belive that as you get better at listening and enjoying all there is on recordings, both good and bad, these things become ever more important. If you learn to hear them, they do matter. But to be fair, this also requires spending time with speakers that, by design, demonstrably present as much harmonic phase accuracy that timbre is built upon at the current level of the state of the art.

And just why in heck does JMLab (and Wilson) have to charge such large $um$ at the top of their product lines to not even care to address nor even attempt to achieve this? So, in the end I have to conclude that extremely expensive, inaccurate timbre is preferred by some hobbyists called audiophiles? I find that simply fascinating. Perhaps the process of accurate timbre appreciation is just a matter of time...but in the end, more will find, as I did, that it does matter.

Hi Stevecham - I am puzzled by your indictment of the timbre of JM Labs products. As I said above, that is my priority in a speaker - and I find the timbre very accurate, natural and beautiful. And this based on many evenings in concert halls listening to live, UNAMPLIFIED music. I have been an audiophile for 36 years. I am trying to replicate the real thing as closely as possible. Perhaps your conclusion is based on a poor demo. Since I don't care to slam either of the two fine products you mention, I will say that one of those brands interested me and I found the mids and highs so hard as to be unlistenable. Again, probably a bad demo as both speaker brands you mention not only have a great reputation, but they couldn't have stayed business as long as they have by building a bad product.

My point is this - you must listen to a product in your home with your own equipment to determine whether it's going to work for you. And rejoice in the banquet table of products available to the audiophile! We don't all have the same tastes or priorities in music reproduction. If you enjoy your system, then count yourself a blessed man and enjoy the music. But why try to convince someone that JM Labs builds a bad product when many believe they build a great product? I am curious though, what you base your conclusion of timbral accuracy upon - are you a musician, or do you listen to a lot of live acoustic music such that you have the "real thing" as reference point when you buy audio equipment? If you do, you are doubly blessed to have built a system that replicates the live experience.

For others who may be reading my rambling on and on, I would caution that reproduction of a live jazz concert in an intimate acoustic is very different from the reproduction of a full orchestra playing full tilt with chorus and soloists. Some systems simply can't handle the big production, but do a really nice job on the jazz. If you're trying to replicate the experience of a rock concert, then I would suggest that you buy what sounds good to you on this music, as the "real thing" is amplified and played through speakers that probably wouldn't sound good in the home anyway. Again, buy a system that works for you, in your home, with the music you listen to.