Is harmonic accuracy and timbre important at all?


Disclaimer: I am not Richard Hardesty in disguise. But I have reached similar ground after many years of listening and equipment swapping and upgrading and would enjoy discourse from a position that is simply not discussed enough here.

I feel a strong need to get on a soap box here, albeit friendly, and I don't mind a rigorous discussion on this topic. My hope is that, increasingly, manufacturers will take notice of this important aspect of music reproduction. I also know that it takes time, talent, money and dedication to accomplish accuracy of timbre in speaker design and that "shamanism" and "snake oil," along with major bux spent on fine cabinetry that may do little to improve the sound, exists everywhere in this industry.

I fully acknowledge that Dunlavy and Meadowlark, a least for now, are gone, and that only Vandersteen and Thiel survive amidst a sea of harmonically inaccurate, and frequently far more expensive, speakers.

Can you help me understand why anyone would want to hear timbre and harmonic content that is anything but as accurate as possible upon transducing the signal fed by the partnering amplifier? It seems to me if you skew the sonic results in any direction away from the goal of timbral accuracy, then you add, or even subtract, any number of poorly understood and potentially chaotic independent and uncontrollable variables to listening enjoyment.

I mean, why would you want to hear only some of the harmonic content of a clarinet or any other instrument that is contained on the recording? Why would you not want the speaker, which we all agree is the critical motor that conveys the musical content at the final stage of music reproduction, to provide you with as much as possible by minimizing harmonic conent loss due to phase errors, intentionally imparted by the speaker designer?

Why anyone would choose a speaker that does this intentionally, by design, and that is the key issue here, is something I simply cannot fathom, unless most simply do not understand what they're missing.

By intentional, I mean inverting the midrange or other drivers in phase in an ill-fated attempt to counter the deleterious effects that inexpensive, high-order crossovers impart upon the harmonic content of timbre. This simply removes harmonic content. None of these manufacurers has ever had the cojones to say that Jim Thiel, Richard Vandersteen or John Dunlavy were wrong about this fundamental design goal. And none of them ever tries to counter the fact that they intentionally manufacture speakers they know, by their own hand, are sonically inaccurate, while all the all the same in many cases charging unsuspecting so-called audiophiles outlandish summs of money.

Also, the use of multiple drivers assigned identical function which has clearly been shown to smear phase and creates lobing, destroying essentially the point source nature of instruments played in space that give spatial, time and phasing so important to timbre rendering.

I truly belive that as we all get better at listening and enjoying all the music there is on recordings, both digital and analog, of both good and bad recording quality, these things become ever more important. If you learn to hear them, they certainly do matter. But to be fair, this also requires spending time with speakers that, by design, demonstrably present as much harmonic phase accuracy that timbre is built upon, at the current level of the state of the art.

Why would anyone want a speaker to alter that signal coming from the amp by removing some harmonics while retaining or even augmenting others?

And just why in heck does JMLab, Wilson, Pipedreams and many others have to charge such large $um$ at the top of their product lines (cabinetry with Ferrari paint jobs?) to not even care to address nor even attempt to achieve this? So, in the end I have to conclude that extremely expensive, inaccurate timbre is preferred by some hobbyists called audiophiles? I find that simply fascinating. Perhaps the process of accurate timbre appreciation is just a matter of time...but in the end, more will find, as I did, that it does matter.
stevecham
Jkalman--mixing monitors are not part of the signal chain. With amplified music, the microphones are generally capturing either unamplified sound (a vocalist or drum kit) or the sound directly off a crossoverless reinforcement device, such as a guitar amp. Yes, there are plenty of upstream problems and some recordings sound better than others. But that doesn't negate the importance of getting it right at the end of the line.

Great post, songwriter. Not sure I completely agree, but well said.
Jkalman ,

Recording engineers may use different speakers for listening to their music.This isn't how the sound is recorded. It is recorded through microphones.

Songwriter is refering to live unamplified music. It's up to the person to tolerate listening to Concert or Club type amplified music systems. Nothing wrong with it if you like listening to this stuff on a daily basis. Personally If I had to listen to the club amplified type music all the time it would give me a headache.

Several years back..I thought of it as you do. It wasn't until I sat down and really listened to some time/phase coherent speakers did I understand what the fuss was all about.

We all have different taste in music. This is one of the factors when buying speakers. Take for example highly compressed music. You listen to it in your car or on some big Cerwin Vegas it sounds good. Take the same recording and play it on a speaker without the raised treble or midbass hump...it will sound like shit!! LOL

The speaker allowed you to hear the recording as it was recorded and mixed with no help from the speaker to fill in the rest of the sore spots. The same goes for time/phase coherent speakers. You hear the timing in the recording as it was originally recorded through the mics and other recording equipment, not a mock up of what it should sound like.This stuff is tough to explain. Putting it in words isn't easy for me..but I understand the concept completely.

There are other important factors to loudspeaker design.These are just two of them.
I have always thought that "Hi end" audio was about reproducing a given source as accurately as possible without requards to the quality of this source. Crap in, crap out. Good in, good out, etc. With this in mind, I would think that a pair of speakers should be able to reproduce an excellent recording correctly and make a bad recording sound bad.
I have noticed the number of people stating that the room influence negates accuracy, or this effects it and that effects it and therefore you really don't need accurate speakers. I consider this pure BS!
If something in the chain (source) starts out messed up, it will end up even worse after the cummulative effects of the chain ending with inaccurate speakers. You stand no chance of getting annything remotely correct.
I just think you stand a better chance with as accurate of components as possible. If inaccuracies are the rule of the day then why spend all this money. Are we buying looks or sound?
I feel speakers MUST start off as flat in frequency as possible and then get the other parameters as close as you can.
I agree with the original poster on the fact that once you use time and phase correct speakers, it's hard to go back. I too hear abnormalities in the sound of a lot of so called high end speakers that sell for a lot of bucks.
As for dynamics and other so called drawbacks of time and phase speakers, how do you know they aren't correct and you are listening to exaggerations of the original source with high slope speakers?
Amplified music in a live venue is an exaggeration of what is actually going on. Colorations are added through the electronic and speaker chain.
I played sax for many years and I can say without a doubt that time and phase speakers reproduce live sax better than any speaker I have heard. They do get the harmonic structure correct. I have used a live feed to test this.
The consumer is certainly free to purchase and use any speaker that he or she likes and sounds "Correct" to them. I certainly have no problem with that.
However, I do believe that from what "High end" once stood for, it has been transposed to what costs more. This becomes evident when arguments start over why should a speaker be accurate. If it's not to be technically correct, then what the hell is all this fuss over. Buy what you want and let it go! It reminds me of what is better, a Chevy or a Ford? They both get you from point "A" to point "B" same as a Lexus. I think "Status" has become the rule of the day.
Yes harmonic accuracy and correct timbre are important, but it's up to the individual listener to determine if they are the end all and be all of audio reproduction. Sometimes and in some situations other reproduction factors can be more important.

Until the day I see the two of you side by side in a room, I will fervently believe that Stevecham is Richard Hardesty.
when Plato stated

"Also, once you put any loudspeaker into a room and connect it to a bunch of random components, it could be the most accurate speaker in the world, but it sure won't measure or sound that way. I think that is when some of the other performance parameters become important"

i think he hit a vital point but i would interpret it a bit differently. With all the random variables in a system, room (probably the limiting factor in almost everyones set up admit it or not)and recording environment/process i would want my speakers to be as accurate as possible so as not to add coloration at the most important point in the signal chain. If your speakers are right you can begin to address the other issues such as room to get the whole thing right. Having inaccurate speakers, especially those whcih may have been designed in part by ear in the design environment, just adds one more thing to work around. Even as the rest of the system and room comes up to snuff that problem will remain.