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Comments, please, on Spica TC-60 setup.

I'm new to the forum and have a decidedly beer-budget approach to music reproduction, but would appreciate any comments or advice on setting up a pair of TC-60s I bought recently on eBay. I hear they're tricky, and would like to think they're capable of better than what I'm hearing.

The system: Harman/Kardon HK3500 50wpc receiver & FL8550 5-disc CD changer and Mission 772 speakers being replaced with Spica TC-60s. Monster interconnects and XP speaker wire (2 10' pairs for biwiring). Also, Stax Lambda Pros with SRD-X energizer.

The issue: The Spica's are much more reticent than the Missions on dynamics and vocals, and the imaging, while good and deeper than the Missions, is not dramatically better.

The setup: very lively 12x18 room with 9' ceiling. Speakers 4' from front wall, 2' from side walls, 8' apart on 26" metal stands. Listening position 4' from back wall, 10' from speakers. As it's an apartment, listening levels are natural only on quiet vocal material.

This arrangement seems to yield the best soundstage, but it's not what you'd call holographic. It's a little more tightly defined than the Missions' and deeper. Bass is also much more articulate. But, the upper midrange reticence (around 1-2KHz) is just killing vocals and any sense of immediacy. Norah Jones and Abbey Lincoln are just too far away and hiding behind a thin curtain. The Missions are perhaps too up-front, killing soundstage depth, but intimate vocals are right there and very close to the Staxes in tonal balance. With the Spicas, only on livelier material like Paul Simon's Rythm of the Saints cranked up to near-natural levels (enough to bother the neighbors downstairs) do the dynamics start to open up and generate a sense of space despite the laid-back reproduction of the vocals. These speakers seem to need to be fairly loud. At low levels, the dynamics just aren't there.

Now, obviously, better source and amplification gear would help. Better stands would help. Better cables might help. But, in terms of dynamics and presence, the Missions manage much better with this modest kit, albeit with a more forward and much shallower soundstage. I'm not aiming for the ultimate in resolution here. I just want a believable soundstage and presence. I have to believe the TC-60s can sound better, and I'm hoping it's a question of positioning.

My 20-year-old memories of the TC-50, and the reviews of the TC-50 and Angelus I've read, led me to expect a somewhat thin, tipped-up sound from the TC-60, which would suit me fine if the imaging lived up to Spica's reputation. But, this is exactly the opposite of what I'm hearing. It's not that voices are chesty, but more that their upper octaves are rolled off.

Any help or comments, especially from TC-60 owners, would be greatly appreciated.
jacquescornell
opalchip
355 posts
 
One suggestion which yielded pretty amazing results with TC-50's when I did something similar some 20 years ago:

Once you have the position for the TC-60's optimized, and you've got a new amp(s) - try running the Spicas in parallel with the Missions. You'll still need the H/K receiver to run the Missions, since it will give you the ability to fine tune the volume of the speakers relative to one another. (The Spicas at 4 ohms will be louder at the same power level - which is probably how you want them to balance out anyway). The key to maintaining imaging and proper freq. response is to measure the distance from the Spica midrange drivers to your listening position and make sure the Missions are placed symmetrically at EXACTLY the same distance. By keeping them close together, you'll pick up some bass coupling. You may be amazed at what you hear.

The downside is that any movement by you, even a few inches, out of your "sweet spot" will have phase cancellation issues. But right in the spot and you will possibly have some very exciting audio.

I did this with TC-50's, literally sitting on top of a pair of a friend's Bose 501's in 1986. As we know, the 501's SUCK on their own - which was what I intended to demonstrate by bringing my Spicas over to his place. But as part of the combo they served to fill in the lows and the highs - and the imaging was spectacular. We were pretty blown away.
jacquescornell OP
56 posts
 
Connected the Spicas and Missions to the A & B speaker outputs on my H/K. Sensitivity is very close. The Missions add some presence and dynamics, but they completely muck up the Spicas' imaging. Not a good combo. Think I'll sell the Missions. And, now that I've got this bee in my bonnet, I'm going to audition some Martin Logans, Thiels and Gallo Reference 3s today. Dangerous, I know. I could be happy with the Spicas, though, especially if I get my Mission 700as sub fixed.
jacquescornell OP
56 posts
 
I'm still posting my findings just in case any other new Spica owners have trouble with setup. I hope my experience will prove useful to others, especially as I was about to give up and am now LOVING these speakers.

I've now found an even better position for my TC-60s in my 12x19x9 room. I was getting good imaging but distant, inaccessible vocals and drum kits with the Spicas 18" off the floor, 18" from the side walls, 5' from the front wall, and toed in straight at the listening position. As I reported, imaging was wide and deep, but a bit far away, dynamics were compressed, and bass was a bit muddy. All of these issues went away when I put the Spicas back on my 26" stands and positioned 'em 6" (yes, six inches) from the side walls and 28" from the front wall, still aimed straight at the throne. I moved the throne forward to maintain a listening position about one foot closer to the speakers than the distance between the speakers.

The sound stage has moved up about 10', putting Norah Jones right between the speakers, and front-to-back soundstage depth is now less exaggerated and more realistic, with very precise front-to-back positioning. I am now one very happy camper. This is the sound I was expecting when I bought the TC-60s based on 20-year-old memories of the TC-50s. Not only is everything now the correct apparent distance away, but the tonal darkness is gone, giving voice much better presence. In addition, drums and horns are now a bit punchier. All in all, the Spicas have really opened up.

Two days ago, dissatisfied with the dark tonal balance I was hearing, I went to audition some Martin Logans and loved 'em. I was about to plunk down $1,300 on a used pair today, but after hearing the Spicas really beginning to blossom, I'm putting my wallet away. All they need now is a modest sub. They don't have the Nth degree of resolution that the MLs offer, but in terms of throwing a believable image, they're really gratifyingly close. Amazing. Three cheers for John Bau.
jacquescornell OP
56 posts
 
Wow. These speakers just keep getting better and better. I wouldn't trade 'em for the $3,000 Audio Physics I auditioned yesterday.

Yet another position tweak makes these babies not only sing but also thump instead of bonk. Had to learn again the lesson of front wall distance. After having the Spicas three feet from the front wall for a week (I just couldn't give up the idea that more distance = better imaging), I've put 'em closer to the front wall (23" between the wall and the speaker's nearest corner - they're toed in) and a little further from the side walls (16"). The first move flattened out the upper bass hump that was pushing voices away and making me shop for an equalizer, and extended the bottom end very impressively. These speakers don't sound like small stand-mounters any more. The second move solidified the imaging ever so slightly.

At this point, a shift of three inches in any direction, especially front-back, affects the tonal balance substantially. I'm now moving the speakers an inch at a time to tune the bass. A 1" shift away from the front wall got rid of a resonance that was making certain notes on electric and acoustic bass stand out noticably. For the kind of material I listen to, I really don't need my Mission subwoofer any more, but it's already in the shop for repair. Mission is being completely unresponsive to inquiries about replacement parts. Makes me wonder if they're going out of business.

Anyway, the lesson for any new TC-60 owners is to experiment like crazy with positioning. I've never seen a speaker so dramatically affected by positioning. In the wrong position, these speakers can be pretty blah. Get it right, though, and the rewards are terrific.
jacquescornell OP
56 posts
 
Bass reinforcement is even better and smoother with the TC-60s two feet out from a long wall in my 12x19 room. Absolutely no need for a subwoofer on acoustic music, as kick drum and acoustic bass have plenty of weight. Though I don't have the manual, I've read that it recommends placement 2'-3' out from a long wall. However, my room is too narrow, and reflections off the back wall, just two feet behind the listening position, muddy the imaging and foreshorten the soundstage depth. So, the TC-60s are back along the short wall again. Bass is lighter and suffers mild resonance, but instruments and voices have lots of space around 'em.
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