WILSON AUDIO/ cost vs. value

"I believe they are the highest profile offender", Offender!! Offender of what? They design and manufacture speakers, that sell to persons that can afford it and these people buy it, they want it, or they would not build them, they are creating and meeting a demand and as far as I can see, the only people that take offence to that are the ones that can't afford it.

I think Holenneck might be hinting that a $100k Mercedes is more like a $10k speaker, and that a $125+ speaker is more like a $400k+ (or 1mil) car (especially a hand-built, custom model). Maybe I'm way off base on that one.

As for the original topic at hand, I agree the ad copy is targeting naive readers who some of who probably feel Wilson is charging exhorbant prices. "Gee I guess they're a good value after all!" I don't get a sense that it was aimed at enlightened audionuts, like us. Although I am happy that Wilson makes enough money to consistently take out full page ads in Stereophile, thus helping to subsidize the magazine and maintain my $1/copy subscription.

My take on it is this. Wilson is a successful business man. He knows his client base, and has carved out a successful niche (niches?) while resisting market erosion. I applaud him for that. He's obviously doing well. Would I buy his product? Not unless I had a lot more disposable income (or a lot more income period). The value just isn't there for me. Although he does have a good performing product.

Audiophools like me will need to make their own economic decisions. If the wilson product appeals to their tastes, and it economically doable within the household budget, then it's a good value. But that's a value that has nothing to do with Wilson's costs - publicised or not. The value is only compared against the final retail selling price. It doesn't matter to me if there is $27k profit, $1k profit, or a $2k loss with each set of WP8 sold ($28k retail). Well, the loss or the razor profit might worry me if I was concerned about the company's viability for long term warranty repairs or service. But that's Wilson's problem. And I take that into account when I do my own "value" calculation.

Truth be told, if I had more bucks than time, I'd just get a turn-key solution from a dealer (maybe a Wilson dealer), pay the bucks, and enjoy my stereo. Perhaps that is the value that Wilson is generating.

I thought this discussion was about value, perceived or real, and not about economic class distinctions. Whether or not anyone choses to spend their money on a $300,000 bicycle does not prove that the bicycle is worth that much, or isn't. The determinant I would use has more to do with whether people who need to think about how they spend their money can justify such a purchase. As someone pointed out to me earlier, all of this stuff is ridiculously priced. I agree. What we pay for even modest audio equipment is hard to justify relative to what most things in your household cost. What I meant to indicate by referring to Wilson as "one of the worst offenders, is that they move the needle way up on the exploitometer. Their products are priced so far beyond the cost of parts and labor that you can't see them both at the same time because of the curvature of the earth. Think about what it can possibly cost. I just replaced all of my kichen counters with slab granite. The work was done by the premier granite fabricator in our area with numerous upgrade features that added to the cost. I paid $6000 for that. Do you imagine that a pair of X-2 cabinets cost more? Add in the crossover, drivers and binding posts and remember that all these items cost much less in the volume that Wilson purchases than they would if you bought a few. I assure you that cost of parts and materials on those $125,000 speakers does not exceed 10% of the asking price. The normal markup for speaker manufactures is 4 to 5 times the cost of parts and assembly and packaging labor. Does it really cost Wilson $25,000 to $30,000 to build a pair of those?

the sophia 2 just maybe the best deal in all of audio, if i ever purchase a wilson product, it will be a pair of those.

Parts only make up a limited percentage of any product cost, as a person involved in manufacturing, I can tell you, there is Industrial design cost, which can be in the six figure range, product design costs, can also be in the six figure range, prototyping/ material selection costs, expert assemble and handling costs (cabinet makers), factory cost (taxes, lights, heat, air condition, water), then there is "after" costs, like liability insurance, health insurance, shipping, warranty costs, marketing, shows, future research and development, damages and so many other small stuff it would make your head spin.

Now all this investment has to be made back, plus the cost of parts.

How can we even begin to point fingers at Wilson, I mean, does your wife have diamonds, gold, how about art work, designer cloths, handbags, shoes, watches, do you eat in any fine restaurant, it is a class thing I am afraid, the only reason we think $27K or $250K is over the curve, is because to you and I it is, but to many it's nothing, so therefore to those that can afford these speakers it's worth every penny.

I am not sure if Wilson is right in what he says in the ad (unless we see his books and every other speaker manufacturers) but I do understand what he's trying to say.