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What's the greatest bargain in SET these days?

Hi, Gang,
I response to my recent review of the Reference 3A De Capo BE speaker, someone wrote that if you really want to hear them sing, you should try them with a SET amp, or words to that effect.
That got me thinking. The De Capo's are 92 db efficient, which (correct me if I'm wrong) seems kind of borderline for low-power SET amps.
In any event, right now I'm running mine with a pair of Manley Mahi mono-blocks. They are switchable from triode (20 watts) to "ultra linear" (40 watts). I run them in triode all the time, and in my room, the volume knob almost never goes past 9 o'clock; more would just be too loud.
All that said, what do you guys think of running the De Capo's with a SET amp? And if I did, what's the best bargain in SET's these days?
Thanks!
rebbi
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,566 posts
 
Good performance from a technical perspective and good sound are two different but related things.

Just keep in mind that any speaker will work with most any amp. Its just a matter of how well and how it sounds.

Rebbi's done his homework and pretty much knows the SWOT analysis at this point I would say.

I think there is a decent chance any of the prime candidates could work out for Reb given his goals. Is it a technical match made in heaven? I'd say no, but the end results might still hit the bulls eye, at least in this case.

Building the kit sounds like a fun project in particular.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,566 posts
 
"What troubles me is that rebbi needs to make a decision without benefit of an audition."

That's the problem.

He could always buy used initially to get a feel, then sell and buy new if needed/desired. That would be the risk mitigation strategy I would recommend from a financial perspective.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,566 posts
 
...or buy new with vendor provided support including a return policy for reasonable cost to the buyer.

Kit would be fun, but I would not know what to expect the resale value to be if it did not work out for some reason.

Tube gear in particular can be risky IMHO. I'd probably go with the product I like from a vendor with good support and reasonable return policy, if it were me.
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
11-25-14: Larryi
If the De Capo is easy to drive, that is actually more important than the efficiency rating. I have heard low wattage tube amps driving the very easy load 15 ohm Rogers LS3/5a speaker that is extremely inefficient (low 80's for efficiency) and the combination worked well even in a big room. On the other hand, the Wilson WP7 has a mid 90's efficiency, but even 40-50 watt tube amps would find that speaker to be a beast because of its very challenging load characteristics.
Excellent comments as always, Larry, as are the responses from the others. The impedance characteristics of the de Capo (magnitude and phase) are shown in the graphs near the bottom of this page, which I had linked to earlier in the thread. They strike me as being indicative of an easy load, the worst case probably being the combination of a 7 ohm impedance and a phase angle of around -32 degrees which occurs just in the immediate vicinity of 100 Hz.

My Ulysses, btw, have extremely benign impedance characteristics, although their nominal impedance is 6 ohms. That may have been a little less true, though, in the version of the Ulysses which existed at the time Jazdoc left the comment I quoted.

Best regards,
-- Al
darkmoebius
900 posts
 
Alamrg, I think this Positive Feedback review excerpt could help explain why Jazdoc's PX-25 "ran out of gas at mid-high listening levels" with his Daedalus Ulysses:
Although I know that Lou did not design this speaker specifically for low-powered tubes, the Ulysses can certainly deliver when driven by them. Is your passion the gorgeous sound of low power tubes? If so this speaker can accommodate you, though within limits. I felt at the 12-watt push-pull Audio Space amp was probably at the lower limit of power you could use and still get realistic dynamics. The 28-watt 845 Consonance SET performed very nicely.

How about mid- to high-power solid-state or tube designs? The Ulysses was built for high power. When I used 15 watts of class D power I loved the unlimited realistic dynamics that made the music seem so natural. My only regret was I didn't have a chance to try this speaker with some high-power tube amps.

Which type of amplification/source did I prefer with the Ulysses? Usually, whatever I was listening to at the time. Pressed for a decision on one, I have to give the nod to the Consonance Cyber 845, and my analog rig (VPI Scoutmaster, Shelter 501, and Aqvox Phono 2Ci, Gingko Cloud 9) which together gave me some of the most extraordinarily cohesive sound my room has ever been graced with. If you read Lou Hinkley's quote "coupling high efficiency with high power handling makes for effortless reproduction of music" it is obvious that he prefers a high-power amp for these speakers. I look at the Ulysses low-power affability as a big plus. This chameleon-like transducer is friendly to many different types of amps, and it truly lets you enjoy the characteristics of each and every amp. Rare indeed and a dream for audiophiles who enjoy the sound of more than one type of gain device.
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