Jazz for aficionados

I think that it is importantly to stay on focus in these discussions. I said nothing about "formal" training being a prerequisite for anything. To understand what "form" is in a tune, and to be able to explain the rudiments of improvisation is something that, even if one doesn't "study" it, is one thing that becomes part of any competent musician's (any genre) sphere of knowledge simply through assimilation, and what the process of (for instance) memorizing a tune demands of a musician. I think that you are mistaken about this. I have met many non-musician music "geeks" without any "formal" music education who have a very deep understanding of all this and much more. All I am saying is that it is a very worthwhile pursuit, and that (going back to the issue of the romanticizing of the process) there is no need to fear the learning; it will do nothing but heighten the enjoyment of the music.

****but I am surprised you would use that, because a lot of the Jazz that you have presented on this forum,as being your favorites, has no blues element at all****

Are you kidding me? What was the very first recording I recommended in my first post to this thread? "Blues And The Abstract Truth"; and many others have their roots in the blues. Focus, man, focus :-)

****But in the end, it is the non-musical, the non-artistic, who are the final arbitrators. They decide who is great and not so great. They decide who is saying something and who is not. Lack of knowledge of the blues notwithstanding.****

Really? Two words; well actually one word and one letter:

Kenny G

OK, that was trite; sorry. Look at it this way: if it weren't for the scene itself (the players) promoting certain players who they like to play with, and who the established cats feel will be important voices, the corporate dudes would not know who they are. Obviously, at some point the politics of it all starts to take on more and more importance, but usually by then the foundation has been laid out by the scene itself; not the other way around. With some exceptions as to merit; of course. Again, two words......

Here's how it was explained to me by a working musician -- you don't actually know 1,600 songs. What you do know are standard harmonic devices which are the basis of popular music. You know these in different keys and can work them in various modes. With a few exceptions the structure of most songs are fairly standardized. It also helps if someone in the band actually knows the melody. And if you start to get lost, you can always play some blues. Finally, he said you have to study specific tunes from people like Ellington, Monk or Shorter because they are different enough to require individual study. The way I understand what he was saying is that once you understand what form the music is in, playing the song becomes relatively easy, assuming you have talent and you've put in the hours of practice.

********"Are you kidding me? What was the very first recording I recommended in my first post to this thread? "Blues And The Abstract Truth"; and many others have their roots in the blues. Focus, man, focus :-)"*******

After considerable focusing, I Seem to recall certain folks talking about, and singing the prasies of the ARAB and the SPANISH and the AFRICAN influences in Jazz. Seems like I remember YOUTUBES of examples of these 'influential' folks flying back and forth. The term 'World Jazz' was used a lot.

Some how, Southwest Pakistani Folk 'Jazz,' comes to mind.

All in all, not exactly hotbeds of the blues.

Could I have imagined it all???

Cheers

The last paragraph in your post. I have no problem with it, if you mean:

The players sort themselves out, declare someone DA MAN, then the kingmakers weigh in, and select the ones that they think can make it all the way, and make money for everyone, then I agree.

BUT, if the anointed ones do not impress the public, then the process starts all over again, until they find a more acceptable candidate. Not more talented, not more respected by his peers, but more acceptable to the ignorant, fickle, know nothing, public.

So in the end it still comes down to the public. (me) Musicians / Artists HATE this. Too Bad! That's the way of the world when it comes to the Entertainment / Music business.

BTW, I am not a musician, so I find it curious that you think I would be offended by not knowing the details of music theory.

Cheers

Kenny G

Kenny was a one hit wonder. Not the first or the last. I own a Christmas CD by Kenny G. Given to me as a Christmas present. Nothing else. He got lucky with a catchy tune, and he never claimed to be a Jazz musician.

BUT, If I had to be locked in a cell with a choice of Kenny G or Ornette Coleman playing non-stop!! Guess what?

Cheers