Prima Luna Premium Pre

Pkelly, I'm wondering if with your present CJ ET3SE you are having to operate the volume control undesirably close to the bottom of its range, especially with digital sources if you are using any.

The reason I ask is that your ET3SE, and also the ET5 you mentioned as a possibility, are spec'd as having unusually high gain (25 db). And I see in another of your recent threads that you are using Sonus Faber Elipsa SE speakers, rated at 91 db/2.83V/1m and 4 ohms, and Cary CAD 500MB amplifiers rated at 1000 watts into 4 ohms, with 1.42 volt sensitivity for full output power. That all suggests to me that you may have too much gain in your system to be optimal, and the same would be true if you went to an ET5.

The 12 db gain of the PrimaLuna preamp, which is more typical of the gain of most line stages, seems much more reasonable in the context of your particular system. To be sure it's clear, however, in saying that I am not expressing any opinion about the PrimaLuna's sonics, having no experience with it.

FWIW. Regards,
-- Al

My main source is now a turntable. A project extension 12 with a Sumiko Celebration 2 cartridge and an Audio Research PH 7 as the phono pre.

Thank You all for the responses.

The 57.5 db gain of your phono stage will raise the output of your cartridge by a factor of 750, so the 0.5 mv rated output of your cartridge under the standard cartridge test conditions will be raised to 0.375 volts. The peak levels of some recordings will be several times greater than those standard test conditions, but still the maximum output levels of many digital sources are likely to be significantly greater than that. So if you go to a different preamp, and you envision the possibility of eventually using a digital source as one of your main sources, the possibility of issues arising from the unusually high gain of the ET5 and perhaps other CJ preamps (in combination with your particular speakers and amplifier) is a factor that should be considered.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

I read this thread and could not resist.

For what it is worth, I have had in home preamp auditions with ARC, Rogue, and BAT products in the $3,000 to $5,000 range.

None could top my $2000 W4S STP SE in my system (Maggie 3.6, W4S ST 1000, Ric Schultz modified Oppo 105, Technics 1200 table, Jolida preamp with upgraded capacitors and op amps, Cullen innerconnects).

Because I still thought that I wanted the "tube" sound, I bought a used Prima Luna Prologue 3 preamp. I liked the sound but it was not as resolving on detail as the W4S and it did not have strong bass.

I just purchased a new Prima Luna Dialogue Premium that has maybe 20 hours on it. Tube rectified and hand wired among other attributes and a beast at 53 pounds.

The sound is not there yet but is improving. Lots of texture across the audio range and a more live presence to the sound to my ears than the STP SE. Still not positive about the bass ("maybe" not as much as the STP SE....) but do think I am hearing a more holographic imaging of the instruments in the mix.

Kevin (Upscale)could have sold me a Cary SLP 98 for about twice the price but said the Dialogue was better. I trusted his judgement and I think that he is going to be right.

Hi Pkelly

I have no doubt your ET3SE sounds great. Your question above asked about the quality of the parts used. Valid and important to ask. The PrimaLuna uses audiophile grade Takman resistors and SCR Tinfoil caps made in France, Alps Blue Velvet volume control, and input selection is pretty slick using very nice Japanese relays made by Fujitsu. There are two toroidal power transformers. The tube sockets are mounted to heavy-duty ventilated panel mounts instead of a printed circuit board. In fact there are no PCB's in the entire circuit path. It's wired with Swiss made silver plated oxygen free copper.

When a company uses brand-name parts they are pretty quick to mention it in their literature, I assure you. Because it can triple your build costs, and you want potential buyers to know it.

I understand your dealer telling you to upgrade to a ET5. It's $9500. You have an ET3SE that costs $4000. How do you expect him to react when you ask him about the PrimaLuna at $3199?

I've been told straight out by some dealers: I will sell the more expensive product when PrimaLuna is not expensive enough. The customers needs are secondary to the dealer's wallet. Sad but true.

All PrimaLuna integrated amps are Stereophile Class A rated. The $3399, 65lb DiaLogue Premium is incredible. There is another Class A integrated there costing $8000 that weighs 36 lbs, uses a chip for a volume control, and has a simple PCB where everything is mounted. Somebody here look at both internally and give an opinion. Use Google Images.

Given that, the ET5 is a nice hybrid preamp. $9500. 28lbs. 25dB of gain. The other fellow on this thread named Al seems technically adept and he explained the gain issue. At Upscale Audio we will not warranty vintage tubes going into preamps with super high gain. We will warranty current production Russian tubes as I can send them back for credit.

I understand this stuff and I'm most happy to discuss any aspect of it as long as we are pragmatic and not getting into blustery sweeping comments.