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Want something more forgiving than Vandy 3a sigs

I think Mike Fremer's comment about the Vandersteen Quatros, in his Stereophile review, applies to the Vandersteen 3a sigs: "...treble performance may strike some as being too honest...". I'm one of those "some." We all know that a lot of source material out there suffers from some degree of treble emphasis. I listen to a wide range of classical and jazz recordings, and, even after a fair degree of experimentation with cables, pre-amps, and amps, I've been unable to come up with a combination that is sufficiently "forgiving" to allow me to listen, easily and comfortably, to as much of the source material that I want to hear on my Vandys. In particular, I'm often disappointed with orchestral string sound...and indeed, have figured out, with this experience, that massed strings are quite difficult to record well. My system starts with a Linn CD12. I've tried PSE, GNSC-modified ARC LS-15, Cary SLP2002, and am working with a Cary SLP98 now on the pre-amp side; and have tried a VTL ST150, a BEL1001, and an ARC VT100 MKIII on the amp side. I've used various Audioquest, Kimber, BEL, and Purist Audio cable, and am happiest with Cardas Cross and Golden Cross (to which I was led by things I read on this Forum). All of that is good gear, some of it more top-focused than others. None of it has been able to give me as consistently as warm and "lush" a listening experience as I think I ought to be able to find, and this is especially true with orchestral music. Probably not surprisingly, the Cary 2002 combined with the ARC VT-100 has leaned closest to the right direction. (Let me hasten to add, though, that a really well-recorded chamber music or jazz CD will often sound terrific with most of this equipment and the Vandys.) (I should also add that I came to the 3a sigs from the 2ce sigs, which I also felt were capable of being a bit unforgiving, frankly.)

Within Texas, where I live (and where I would prefer to buy), I've figured out that some options include Sonus Faber Cremonas, Audio Physic Scorpios, Wilson Benesh Circles (I think) and not much else (of which I am aware)that will fit into the room without creating domestic discomfort. (My wife thinks the Vandy's are too big as it is.)

Any ideas out there about the speakers mentioned, other speakers, or possibly electronics?
eweedhome
sgbaird
18 posts
 
Well, I was hoping that there would be something familiar among your list of recordings, Eweedhome, but, alas, I have none of these. Nor have I ever had the good fortune to hear the legendary Linn CD 12, but its reputation would have me thinking that that the culprit futzing with your string tones has to be something quite simple. Given that the 3As have a reputation for showing low impedance in the bass frequencies, I'd gather that the 4 Ohm setting on the ARC would produce the better sound.

If there are any similarities between our systems, they would be in our choices of amp and preamp. I run a 23 year old Quicksilver that makes 95 watts per channel, and a highly modified tube preamp that's based on the Marantz 7 design. This pair develops considerable dynamic range and good sound, but can sound a bit strident with many audiophile "sacred cow" accessories. I solved the string tone issue years ago by doing several things, including rolling literally scores of tubes through my components, then finally finding the solution by replacing the vaunted Telefunken 12AX7s with some Sylvania 5751s and replacing my speaker cables with those offered by Monarchy Audio. These might work for you as they are extremely smooth but open in the highest frequencies.
eweedhome OP
227 posts
 
I appreciate your thoughts, sgbaird, and, in fact, I just picked up an old ARC SP-8 for the fun of it to see what it does to the sound to go back in time, so to speak. I may well send it to Great Northern Sound for mods later. I felt that GNSC did a fine job with a my 2nd hand ARC LS-15. In the LS-15, I have some Amperex Bugle Boys, which seem nice. The Harbeths are certainly "easier" in the highs than the Vandersteens. I'm antsy to get my ARC VT100 back to see how it works with the Harbeths and my growing collection of pre-amps. I remember when those Quicksilvers came out...that was big news, and I almost got some, but ran out of money during a divorce in '89 (was I paying to much attention to my audio gear?) and lived with the same set-up after that for 10 years, happily...I know it can be done!
limbic
2 posts
 
Hi - I'm new to audiogon but have really appreciated the level of intelligence and experience in this community evidenced by so many threads. I do not have the breadth of experience most of you do, but I wanted to add a comment -- forgive me if someone else has addressed this and I somehow missed it -- but have you considered a really good tube amp to warm up the sound of strings? (I'm sensitive to this issue myself, and as a musician am constantly comparing various systems with the sound of real instruments in the room.) I would also say that the Manger speakers, driven by a tube amp (I know, the company recommends solid state --mostly for power, as the small zeroboxes are quite inefficient -- but I much prefer them with a tube) are downright miraculous with chamber, vocal, orchestral, etc.

(The system I'm most familiar with comprises mostly Linn components, with the exception of a Mark Levinson pre-amp and, for a while, a nOrh SE tube amp.)
eweedhome OP
227 posts
 
Thank you for commenting, Limbic. When I did the original post, I noted my system, which includes an ARC (Audio Research) VT 100 Mk III, which is a tube amp. But I didn't SAY it was a tube amp...we get so caught up in our shorthand, you know. I agree with you (also as a musician) that tubes, whatever their irritations, do some things really right, and one of them is strings. Even though I changed from the Vandersteens to the Harbeth speakers, I'm still using the VT 100, and I haven't found anything I like better.

Now, to be honest, I have no clue what you are talking about when you say "Manger" speakers. I believe someone else mentioned that name, and I wasn't sure what it was. Can you tell me about them (off line if you wish).

Thanks
bondmanp
1,808 posts
 
If you are able to audition Silverline Audio speakers, you might like what you hear. They are designed with a slightly lower output in the upper-mids/lower treble, and I liked what I heard from the Bolero model very much. I too am extremely sensitive to any emphasis or distortion in the brightness range. My modest Vandy 1Cs are likewise a bit "too honest" in this range, although I cannot rule out a contribution from my room and associated gear.

Also, although I have not heard them, Magnolia (inside many Best Buys) carries Vienna Acoustics. The reputation they have is for a very warm presentation that is easy on people with ears like ours.

Oh, and if you're in Texas, I can strongly recommend you hunt down Roman Audio. Their Centurian model (~6500/pr) would work well for you. I loved them the two times I heard them. Very smooth, transparent and liquid. Tube-friendly, too!

One last thought: I always thought that ARC tube amps had a rep for soomewhat coolish sound, despite the tubes. Although Vandersteens are often demo'd and paired with ARC tube amps, what about something warmer, like the Moscode?
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